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> but these problems do warn people to stay away from the React ecosystem No they don't. There is bad advice for every framework/language that exists. Followin

> but these problems do warn people to stay away from the React ecosystem No they don't. There is bad advice for every framework/language that exists. Following bad advice means carefully trusting sources. It is 100% on the user to determine whether an article applies, or it's plain wrong. > If the React team doesn't want people to stay away, it's in their interest to do something about it. Do what exactly? Start sending take-down notices for poorly written articles? Would you use a chainsaw to make a miniature, and then saw the chainsaw manufacturers need to "do something about it"? People are so weird about frameworks.

BenMosher 10y ago
> It is 100% on the user to determine whether an article applies, or it's plain wrong. You're not wrong, but isn't it especially difficult for an inexperienced person to judge whether an article applies?
mcphage 10y ago
> It is 100% on the user to determine whether an article applies, or it's plain wrong. It is. But nobody has the time or patience to determine that for every article, so if the React team wants people to use React, then it's in their interest to insure good articles about React are easier to find than bad articles about React. > Do what exactly? Start sending take-down notices for poorly written articles? Write good articles & tutorials, as well as share & popularize the good articles that are out there. Ask the companies that use React talk about React and how it solves their problems. If developers like starter kits & scaffolded projects, then write some good ones and toss them up on Github. Make sure the message that they want to get out doesn't get buried under all of the poorly written cruft out there. They're under no obligation to do any of this, but nor are most developers under any obligation to use React. If they want people to use React, and the message that React is a good, easy framework to use is getting lost, then... well, how do you think that's going to end up? Or to put it another way: there are a lot of JS frameworks out there. React needs developers to use it, more than those developers need to use React specifically. So they should be willing to do some of the heavy lifting needed to attract people; moreso if there's a negative message already out there.
ergothus 10y ago
> There is bad advice for every framework/language that exists I'm somewhat torn on this. I'm currently a JS dev, using React, and I have few complaints. In particular, without regard to the specific API, I think React promotes good models of thought and separation of concerns. It can definitely be done poorly, which can make it a pain to change, but as you say, that's true for anything. BUT - Long ago I did a long stint as a Perl dev. Perl is somewhat infamous for the ease of writing terrible code. I can say with confidence that one can write solid Perl code that is easy to understand and modify. I actually credit the lessons I learned as a Perl dev for improving my code quality in all languages ever since, and there are expressive concepts in Perl that I wish would be implemented in other languages. That doesn't mean that the Perl community (and developers of the language itself) get to ignore that Perl was EASIER to write terrible code in - and in my opinion their(our) ineffectiveness at changing that reputation was as much to blame for the decline of Perl as the Perl 6 crawlout. React is no Perl - I'm not trying to set up a strawman here. I'm just saying that "there is bad advice for every framework/language" can be true and still not contradict the concept that a reputation for problems warns/scares away devs. (That said, I think React isn't suffering that reputation, JS is)

BenMosher 10y ago

> It is 100% on the user to determine whether an article applies, or it's plain wrong. You're not wrong, but isn't it especially difficult for an inexperienced person to judge whether an article applies?

mcphage 10y ago

> It is 100% on the user to determine whether an article applies, or it's plain wrong. It is. But nobody has the time or patience to determine that for every article, so if the React team wants people to use React, then it's in their interest to insure good articles about React are easier to find than bad articles about React. > Do what exactly? Start sending take-down notices for poorly written articles? Write good articles & tutorials, as well as share & popularize the good articles that are out there. Ask the companies that use React talk about React and how it solves their problems. If developers like starter kits & scaffolded projects, then write some good ones and toss them up on Github. Make sure the message that they want to get out doesn't get buried under all of the poorly written cruft out there. They're under no obligation to do any of this, but nor are most developers under any obligation to use React. If they want people to use React, and the message that React is a good, easy framework to use is getting lost, then... well, how do you think that's going to end up? Or to put it another way: there are a lot of JS frameworks out there. React needs developers to use it, more than those developers need to use React specifically. So they should be willing to do some of the heavy lifting needed to attract people; moreso if there's a negative message already out there.

ergothus 10y ago

> There is bad advice for every framework/language that exists I'm somewhat torn on this. I'm currently a JS dev, using React, and I have few complaints. In particular, without regard to the specific API, I think React promotes good models of thought and separation of concerns. It can definitely be done poorly, which can make it a pain to change, but as you say, that's true for anything. BUT - Long ago I did a long stint as a Perl dev. Perl is somewhat infamous for the ease of writing terrible code. I can say with confidence that one can write solid Perl code that is easy to understand and modify. I actually credit the lessons I learned as a Perl dev for improving my code quality in all languages ever since, and there are expressive concepts in Perl that I wish would be implemented in other languages. That doesn't mean that the Perl community (and developers of the language itself) get to ignore that Perl was EASIER to write terrible code in - and in my opinion their(our) ineffectiveness at changing that reputation was as much to blame for the decline of Perl as the Perl 6 crawlout. React is no Perl - I'm not trying to set up a strawman here. I'm just saying that "there is bad advice for every framework/language" can be true and still not contradict the concept that a reputation for problems warns/scares away devs. (That said, I think React isn't suffering that reputation, JS is)