4 ms·

Its also compulsory. I can't opt out and as you noted, the returns are shrinking drastically. It also passed as a savings program regardless of the horrible boo

by wooter 9y ago

Its also compulsory. I can't opt out and as you noted, the returns are shrinking drastically. It also passed as a savings program regardless of the horrible bookkeeping that the government is doing to keep an crappy system afloat. In fact, they have told us for 50+ years that its perfectly sustainable while plundering the institution to live beyond our means in other areas. As for how its used by retirees today and in the past, would anyone sell stock that is paying insane an unsustainable dividends? Would you blame the investor or the company? Even if its compulsory to buy?

dragonwriter 9y ago
> I can't opt out You absolutely can opt out by choosing to exclude employers that are either mandated, or who have chosen despite not being mandated, to participate in SS. Or by choosing to live by some means other than wage-labor (if you make all your income from capital investments, you have successfully opted out of SS.) No one is coercing you to the contrary (well, except the coercion to wage-labor that affects most of the population under capitalism and which has not generally been eliminated in modern mixed economies; but even there there are some wage-labor options outside of the Social Security mandate.)
- jhall1468 9y ago
  Opting out and not participating in a wage-base economy are absolutely NOT the same thing. Opting out implies a simple choice. This is not a choice, this is either effectively be fantastically wealthy (and live off capital investments) or be fantastically poor (and live off welfare). Since the former isn't really a choice, you get to either opt-out of FICA, or opt-in to being destitute.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Opting out and not participating in a wage-base economy are absolutely NOT the same thing. To the extent capitalism isn't slavery they absolutely are. We can, of course, debate the extent to which capitalism is or isn't slavery. Of course, again, you can still opt-out of Social Security within the wage-labor economy, it just narrows your choices of acceptable employment opportunities. [0] [0] http://finance.zacks.com/groups-not-pay-social-security-system-8212.html http://finance.zacks.com/groups-not-pay-social-security-syst...

by wooter 9y ago

dragonwriter 9y ago

> I can't opt out You absolutely can opt out by choosing to exclude employers that are either mandated, or who have chosen despite not being mandated, to participate in SS. Or by choosing to live by some means other than wage-labor (if you make all your income from capital investments, you have successfully opted out of SS.) No one is coercing you to the contrary (well, except the coercion to wage-labor that affects most of the population under capitalism and which has not generally been eliminated in modern mixed economies; but even there there are some wage-labor options outside of the Social Security mandate.)

jhall1468 9y ago
Opting out and not participating in a wage-base economy are absolutely NOT the same thing. Opting out implies a simple choice. This is not a choice, this is either effectively be fantastically wealthy (and live off capital investments) or be fantastically poor (and live off welfare). Since the former isn't really a choice, you get to either opt-out of FICA, or opt-in to being destitute.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Opting out and not participating in a wage-base economy are absolutely NOT the same thing. To the extent capitalism isn't slavery they absolutely are. We can, of course, debate the extent to which capitalism is or isn't slavery. Of course, again, you can still opt-out of Social Security within the wage-labor economy, it just narrows your choices of acceptable employment opportunities. [0] [0] http://finance.zacks.com/groups-not-pay-social-security-system-8212.html http://finance.zacks.com/groups-not-pay-social-security-syst...