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> "The React team can't be held responsible for the amount of crappy advice on the Internet" Do we extend this same courtesy to the PHP team? Or do we treat it

> "The React team can't be held responsible for the amount of crappy advice on the Internet" Do we extend this same courtesy to the PHP team? Or do we treat it as indicative of something?

scrollaway 10y ago
How about: We hold developers responsible for the things they develop, which is what we've been doing all along? PHP devs got well-deserved flak for a long time, not for the "crappy advice" (although there is plenty to go around), but for the language itself. That situation has improved, so yes, extend some courtesy. React has done a pretty damn good job of looking at the "crappy advice" and treat it as pain point indicators, thus improving React further by fixing those. But you simply can't do that for everything, and a lot of the awful advice you find is what happens when you have a very low barrier of entry to both use something and give advice on it. My uncle keeps telling me I'll get arthritis by cracking my knuckles. Do I blame my doctors because they don't go around actively and preventatively telling people that's not a thing?
- strictnein 10y ago
  I don't have a horse in this race at all, just noting the inconsistencies. Although the idea that React doesn't have some language "issues" is pretty amusing. > "My uncle keeps telling me I'll get arthritis by cracking my knuckles. Do I blame my doctors because they don't go around actively and preventatively telling people that's not a thing?" Really weird comeback at the end there. We do expect experts in various fields to work on educating the public, especially in regards to widely believed but inaccurate ideas.
  - jhall1468 10y ago
    > I don't have a horse in this race at all, just noting the inconsistencies. PHP had some implementation issues that made the language god awful. Saying it's the same thing is a straw man. > Really weird comeback at the end there. We do expect experts in various fields to work on educating the public, especially in regards to widely believed but inaccurate ideas. They do, with their official docs, which are well-written. What, exactly, do you want them to do about third parties?
    - strictnein 10y ago
      > "PHP had some implementation issues that made the language god awful. Saying it's the same thing is a straw man." React does as well: JSX is a bad idea that's unfortunately not going anywhere. And I never said it was the same exact thing. > "They do, with their official docs, which are well-written." I was responding to the statement that field experts bear little responsibility to educating the general public on their fields of expertise, when in fact that is a key role experts play.
      - spicyj 10y ago
        You're welcome to not use JSX. Really! Most people who use React like it though.
      - scrollaway 10y ago
        There is no absolute that says JSX is a bad idea. It's certainly not been established, and most people who say JSX is a bad idea are people who aren't familiar with the subject matter. > I was responding to the statement that field experts bear little responsibility to educating the general public on their fields of expertise My point is that regardless of whether they do (and most of them indeed do, React devs included), you shouldn't be blaming them for "not doing enough" in that regard. It's never going to be enough. That's the thing with experts: They're rare, otherwise they wouldn't be experts in their subject, they'd have the average amount of knowledge. There's always going to be less of them, thus it's harder to educate at scale.
      - thatswrong0 10y ago
        > JSX is a bad idea that's unfortunately not going anywhere. JSX is syntactic sugar. That's it. Not a bad idea by an stretch.

> "The React team can't be held responsible for the amount of crappy advice on the Internet" Do we extend this same courtesy to the PHP team? Or do we treat it as indicative of something?

scrollaway 10y ago

How about: We hold developers responsible for the things they develop, which is what we've been doing all along? PHP devs got well-deserved flak for a long time, not for the "crappy advice" (although there is plenty to go around), but for the language itself. That situation has improved, so yes, extend some courtesy. React has done a pretty damn good job of looking at the "crappy advice" and treat it as pain point indicators, thus improving React further by fixing those. But you simply can't do that for everything, and a lot of the awful advice you find is what happens when you have a very low barrier of entry to both use something and give advice on it. My uncle keeps telling me I'll get arthritis by cracking my knuckles. Do I blame my doctors because they don't go around actively and preventatively telling people that's not a thing?

strictnein 10y ago
I don't have a horse in this race at all, just noting the inconsistencies. Although the idea that React doesn't have some language "issues" is pretty amusing. > "My uncle keeps telling me I'll get arthritis by cracking my knuckles. Do I blame my doctors because they don't go around actively and preventatively telling people that's not a thing?" Really weird comeback at the end there. We do expect experts in various fields to work on educating the public, especially in regards to widely believed but inaccurate ideas.
- jhall1468 10y ago
  > I don't have a horse in this race at all, just noting the inconsistencies. PHP had some implementation issues that made the language god awful. Saying it's the same thing is a straw man. > Really weird comeback at the end there. We do expect experts in various fields to work on educating the public, especially in regards to widely believed but inaccurate ideas. They do, with their official docs, which are well-written. What, exactly, do you want them to do about third parties?
  - strictnein 10y ago
    > "PHP had some implementation issues that made the language god awful. Saying it's the same thing is a straw man." React does as well: JSX is a bad idea that's unfortunately not going anywhere. And I never said it was the same exact thing. > "They do, with their official docs, which are well-written." I was responding to the statement that field experts bear little responsibility to educating the general public on their fields of expertise, when in fact that is a key role experts play.
    - spicyj 10y ago
      You're welcome to not use JSX. Really! Most people who use React like it though.
    - scrollaway 10y ago
      There is no absolute that says JSX is a bad idea. It's certainly not been established, and most people who say JSX is a bad idea are people who aren't familiar with the subject matter. > I was responding to the statement that field experts bear little responsibility to educating the general public on their fields of expertise My point is that regardless of whether they do (and most of them indeed do, React devs included), you shouldn't be blaming them for "not doing enough" in that regard. It's never going to be enough. That's the thing with experts: They're rare, otherwise they wouldn't be experts in their subject, they'd have the average amount of knowledge. There's always going to be less of them, thus it's harder to educate at scale.
    - thatswrong0 10y ago
      > JSX is a bad idea that's unfortunately not going anywhere. JSX is syntactic sugar. That's it. Not a bad idea by an stretch.