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> In other words, it's how sysadmins now operate. There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. > "DevOps" means usi

by geocar 10y ago

> In other words, it's how sysadmins now operate. There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. > "DevOps" means using the tools and methods of modern software engineering to conduct systems administration and configuration of systems and networks. Does it have to be limited to systems administration and network configuration? If we define "DevOps" as an approach that develops software in response to operational tasks, then we allow other kinds of operations, like handling check-in and check-out of books from a library. In this way, anyone who has ever optimized themselves away is in DevOps. I'm reminded of a very complicated program that compiled 32-bit powers of pi efficiently, which was replaced with a table of 19 integers by a clever junior developer, only to have it reverted by the senior developer in case the constant in question needed to be changed in the future. Maybe "DevOps" is simply operators who can program, but then maybe everyone should be able to program.

dsr_ 10y ago
> There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. > Does it have to be limited to systems administration and network configuration? Indeed, my point is that the universe of jobs in computing is a continuous lumpy spectrum, not a set of rigid silos. If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control.
- geocar 10y ago
  > Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. I'd agree with that. I watched a (very) experienced sysadmin struggle to edit some JSON today. He had several notepads with JSON that he would copy and paste into various screens. I suspect when he gets a flat tire, he changes each one to see which one is flat. > If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control. I think (this kind of) management doesn't know better, but natural selection doesn't move swiftly enough. Is there something we can do about that?

by geocar 10y ago

dsr_ 10y ago

> There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. > Does it have to be limited to systems administration and network configuration? Indeed, my point is that the universe of jobs in computing is a continuous lumpy spectrum, not a set of rigid silos. If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control.

geocar 10y ago
> Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. I'd agree with that. I watched a (very) experienced sysadmin struggle to edit some JSON today. He had several notepads with JSON that he would copy and paste into various screens. I suspect when he gets a flat tire, he changes each one to see which one is flat. > If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control. I think (this kind of) management doesn't know better, but natural selection doesn't move swiftly enough. Is there something we can do about that?