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There is no DevOps profession. There are people who work in computers, and they specialize in various ways. People who are specialized in databases are called

by dsr_ 10y ago

There is no DevOps profession. There are people who work in computers, and they specialize in various ways. People who are specialized in databases are called DBAs. Not every company needs a DBA, but many find it useful to have a few on staff, and some need many. People who are specialized in networking are called network engineers. Not every company needs one; some need many. People who are specialists in application development are often called software engineers. Most companies need one; some need many. This list of specializations goes on and on, and changes over time. "DevOps" means using the tools and methods of modern software engineering to conduct systems administration and configuration of systems and networks. In other words, it's how sysadmins now operate. Does your company need one or more operations specialists? Maybe. Maybe not. You're still going to have at least a minimum amount of work to do in that area, and the modern methods for that are called DevOps. Your business needs should drive your hiring. Is your business plan to eke out a margin between the costs of AWS and the revenue of Google Ads? Then you need someone skilled in DevOps to help you understand performance, latency, and how to scale up and down quickly to lose the least amount of money. Is your business plan to sell people subscriptions to a service which is not bursty and is reasonably predictable? You will want DevOps skills to manage the fleet of machines that will be the most cost-efficient way to provide that.

geocar 10y ago
> In other words, it's how sysadmins now operate. There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. > "DevOps" means using the tools and methods of modern software engineering to conduct systems administration and configuration of systems and networks. Does it have to be limited to systems administration and network configuration? If we define "DevOps" as an approach that develops software in response to operational tasks, then we allow other kinds of operations, like handling check-in and check-out of books from a library. In this way, anyone who has ever optimized themselves away is in DevOps. I'm reminded of a very complicated program that compiled 32-bit powers of pi efficiently, which was replaced with a table of 19 integers by a clever junior developer, only to have it reverted by the senior developer in case the constant in question needed to be changed in the future. Maybe "DevOps" is simply operators who can program, but then maybe everyone should be able to program.
- dsr_ 10y ago
  > There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. > Does it have to be limited to systems administration and network configuration? Indeed, my point is that the universe of jobs in computing is a continuous lumpy spectrum, not a set of rigid silos. If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control.
  - geocar 10y ago
    > Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. I'd agree with that. I watched a (very) experienced sysadmin struggle to edit some JSON today. He had several notepads with JSON that he would copy and paste into various screens. I suspect when he gets a flat tire, he changes each one to see which one is flat. > If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control. I think (this kind of) management doesn't know better, but natural selection doesn't move swiftly enough. Is there something we can do about that?

by dsr_ 10y ago

geocar 10y ago

> In other words, it's how sysadmins now operate. There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. > "DevOps" means using the tools and methods of modern software engineering to conduct systems administration and configuration of systems and networks. Does it have to be limited to systems administration and network configuration? If we define "DevOps" as an approach that develops software in response to operational tasks, then we allow other kinds of operations, like handling check-in and check-out of books from a library. In this way, anyone who has ever optimized themselves away is in DevOps. I'm reminded of a very complicated program that compiled 32-bit powers of pi efficiently, which was replaced with a table of 19 integers by a clever junior developer, only to have it reverted by the senior developer in case the constant in question needed to be changed in the future. Maybe "DevOps" is simply operators who can program, but then maybe everyone should be able to program.

dsr_ 10y ago
> There are a lot of sysadmins that don't operate this way. I see a lot of them at banks. Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. > Does it have to be limited to systems administration and network configuration? Indeed, my point is that the universe of jobs in computing is a continuous lumpy spectrum, not a set of rigid silos. If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control.
- geocar 10y ago
  > Let's put it this way: the more educated and effective a sysadmin becomes, the more they appreciate programming their way out of their problems rather than doing things one-off. I'd agree with that. I watched a (very) experienced sysadmin struggle to edit some JSON today. He had several notepads with JSON that he would copy and paste into various screens. I suspect when he gets a flat tire, he changes each one to see which one is flat. > If management wants it to be a set of rigid silos, they are losing efficiency in exchange for what they perceive to be control. I think (this kind of) management doesn't know better, but natural selection doesn't move swiftly enough. Is there something we can do about that?