5 ms·

it's kinda funny how ~50 people who came from this thread to our service illustrated the point of the lack trust – not a single person registered :)

by kkyryl 9y ago

CamelCaseName 9y ago
I don't see how that indicates a lack of trust. People may not be in the mood to change, or need to do more research before they do, especially since it is very late in the evening for the Western world. Also, it's only been 30 minutes since your first post, and 50 is a small sample size.
- kkyryl 9y ago
  that's just a joke – I was not really hoping to get users from here :) I was actually surprised with 50 even clicking the link.
gogopuppygogo 9y ago
I clicked, I read your value prop, I just can't see myself paying $95+ /year for less obnoxious email in my inbox. It's really not that big of a problem to me.
- kkyryl 9y ago
  ugh. I have "Yearly pricing to the homepage" sitting in my to-do list for a few weeks :) so – there's yearly pricing (and it starts with 14.99 / year (I know, this looks really weird, but it took us some time to get to this pricing). now, whether it's valuable enough to justify the price – depends a lot on how you use your email. we've got users managing 3-5 accounts with hundreds of thousands of emails each and they use our labeling/organization more than removal. think of it as of a way to act upon a group of emails no matter what the size of the group is. (and I kinda think our website is not really good at communicating this – our traffic is mostly coming from android app right now and we've been putting website work off. who knew!).
  - DrJaws 9y ago
    Then why you complain? You offer plain and simply ask for 8€ per month per account. That's simply a ridiculous amount of money for 99% of the people, what you have but we can't see is part of the problem, not the trust, the price is just not worth for what you offer, so, don't complain about "not a single new customer from 50 clicks".
    - kkyryl 9y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14182152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14182152 ;)
  - jh00ker 9y ago
    Hey, quick fix: Just make Yearly the default option when the page loads, since the yearly options are the best price. Users to your site may just scroll through without clicking anything and only see the monthly prices (like I did).
    - kkyryl 9y ago
      this sounds like a great idea from the rational standpoint, but our data says otherwise. we've seen a conversion increase and generally more people started buying when we enabled monthly prices and again when we made them default. I have a few theories to back it up – but generally speaking pricing perception is emotional, not rational. looking at our prices you'd assume no one buys monthly, but about 40-50% of people do :)
ianwalter 9y ago
Yea I'm certainly not eager to sign up for another service like this after finding out that the last one I used sold my data. It's getting really tough to trust third party services with your data these days.
- kkyryl 9y ago
  my point exactly. I was just discussing this with a friend – there's really no way for us to prove that we don't keep or don't sell the data we get access to (aside from clearer tos/policies). and it's even scarier with iCloud for example – they don't have oAuth and people need to enter their passwords to scan/clean. (they do have "app-specific" passwords though but looks like people have hard time figuring those out.)
  - raesene2 9y ago
    Well there is, but it's not cheap. You get a trusted third party to Audit you and publish the result of their Audit, something similar to a SAS70. It's not a perfect solution but it's an option to consider
    - kkyryl 9y ago
      fair point – this is something we consider doing before expanding to b2b market. but: my day job is in ecommerce (I work as a product manager at FastSpring) and I used to work on CleanMyMac at MacPaw – had to work with trust in both. it's somewhat unexpected but people who are buying software for themselves usually don't care about PCI compliance, audits, and other artifacts of "institutional validation". they care about a "norton secured" badge, proper language, recommendation from a person they know, a review at the website they read, "that green thing with the lock in my browser".. we're now at the phase where we are trying to find the right combination. just to be clear – it's very different from project to project and depends on the audience. what I'm saying is that we're making decisions emotionally mostly based on our prior experience and rely on internal "thermometer" to tell us if what we're seeing is trustworhty.
      - 9y ago

it's kinda funny how ~50 people who came from this thread to our service illustrated the point of the lack trust – not a single person registered :)

by kkyryl 9y ago

it's kinda funny how ~50 people who came from this thread to our service illustrated the point of the lack trust – not a single person registered :)

CamelCaseName 9y ago

I don't see how that indicates a lack of trust. People may not be in the mood to change, or need to do more research before they do, especially since it is very late in the evening for the Western world. Also, it's only been 30 minutes since your first post, and 50 is a small sample size.

kkyryl 9y ago
that's just a joke – I was not really hoping to get users from here :) I was actually surprised with 50 even clicking the link.

gogopuppygogo 9y ago

I clicked, I read your value prop, I just can't see myself paying $95+ /year for less obnoxious email in my inbox. It's really not that big of a problem to me.

kkyryl 9y ago
ugh. I have "Yearly pricing to the homepage" sitting in my to-do list for a few weeks :) so – there's yearly pricing (and it starts with 14.99 / year (I know, this looks really weird, but it took us some time to get to this pricing). now, whether it's valuable enough to justify the price – depends a lot on how you use your email. we've got users managing 3-5 accounts with hundreds of thousands of emails each and they use our labeling/organization more than removal. think of it as of a way to act upon a group of emails no matter what the size of the group is. (and I kinda think our website is not really good at communicating this – our traffic is mostly coming from android app right now and we've been putting website work off. who knew!).
- DrJaws 9y ago
  Then why you complain? You offer plain and simply ask for 8€ per month per account. That's simply a ridiculous amount of money for 99% of the people, what you have but we can't see is part of the problem, not the trust, the price is just not worth for what you offer, so, don't complain about "not a single new customer from 50 clicks".
  - kkyryl 9y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14182152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14182152 ;)
- jh00ker 9y ago
  Hey, quick fix: Just make Yearly the default option when the page loads, since the yearly options are the best price. Users to your site may just scroll through without clicking anything and only see the monthly prices (like I did).
  - kkyryl 9y ago
    this sounds like a great idea from the rational standpoint, but our data says otherwise. we've seen a conversion increase and generally more people started buying when we enabled monthly prices and again when we made them default. I have a few theories to back it up – but generally speaking pricing perception is emotional, not rational. looking at our prices you'd assume no one buys monthly, but about 40-50% of people do :)

ianwalter 9y ago

Yea I'm certainly not eager to sign up for another service like this after finding out that the last one I used sold my data. It's getting really tough to trust third party services with your data these days.

kkyryl 9y ago
my point exactly. I was just discussing this with a friend – there's really no way for us to prove that we don't keep or don't sell the data we get access to (aside from clearer tos/policies). and it's even scarier with iCloud for example – they don't have oAuth and people need to enter their passwords to scan/clean. (they do have "app-specific" passwords though but looks like people have hard time figuring those out.)
- raesene2 9y ago
  Well there is, but it's not cheap. You get a trusted third party to Audit you and publish the result of their Audit, something similar to a SAS70. It's not a perfect solution but it's an option to consider
  - kkyryl 9y ago
    fair point – this is something we consider doing before expanding to b2b market. but: my day job is in ecommerce (I work as a product manager at FastSpring) and I used to work on CleanMyMac at MacPaw – had to work with trust in both. it's somewhat unexpected but people who are buying software for themselves usually don't care about PCI compliance, audits, and other artifacts of "institutional validation". they care about a "norton secured" badge, proper language, recommendation from a person they know, a review at the website they read, "that green thing with the lock in my browser".. we're now at the phase where we are trying to find the right combination. just to be clear – it's very different from project to project and depends on the audience. what I'm saying is that we're making decisions emotionally mostly based on our prior experience and rely on internal "thermometer" to tell us if what we're seeing is trustworhty.
    - 9y ago