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> It was before Snowden. I wasn't saying that's when it started. I was saying that's when people stopped viewing "government is listening to everyone" as cons

by daveguy 10y ago

> It was before Snowden. I wasn't saying that's when it started. I was saying that's when people stopped viewing "government is listening to everyone" as conspiracy. > No one just wanted to frigging listen until they had a celebrity icon like Snowden to interest them... It didn't have anything to do with Snowden's "celebrity". Do you think he was a celebrity before he produced physical evidence? Turns out, no one wanted to friggin listen, until someone had proof.

arca_vorago 10y ago
"when people stopped viewing "government is listening to everyone" as conspiracy." The entire point is that the public isn't listening to the dangers presented beforehand. Yes, now people dont think you're crazy for thinking we are surveilled heavily, but now the equivalent is when I tell people why they put the surveillance in place at all. Typical responses include "but they're just doing it for national security". If 1/3 of the public only knew half the shit the gov was up to there would be a revolt tomorrow morning. It's deeper and darker than just massive surveillance. My only question for years has been if the public will wake up enough to realize it. With the failing education and financial systems and the propaganda levels turned up to 11, I'm beginning to doubt it.
kakarot 10y ago
You're missing the point. Someone already had proof. Snowden was the one who managed to bring it to a mass audience. And I love him and respect him immensely for that. But I'm sure he also feels the same disdain that it took him completely destroying his life to convince people that something nefarious has been going on when many clues were already public and just routinely dismissed by people like the other guy arguing with me right now. Yeah, he gave lots of evidence on programs we didn't even know existed. Like, the full extent of this situation. But we already had enough information to know that we should demand legislation and oversight and that 1984 has all but come true.

by daveguy 10y ago

arca_vorago 10y ago

"when people stopped viewing "government is listening to everyone" as conspiracy." The entire point is that the public isn't listening to the dangers presented beforehand. Yes, now people dont think you're crazy for thinking we are surveilled heavily, but now the equivalent is when I tell people why they put the surveillance in place at all. Typical responses include "but they're just doing it for national security". If 1/3 of the public only knew half the shit the gov was up to there would be a revolt tomorrow morning. It's deeper and darker than just massive surveillance. My only question for years has been if the public will wake up enough to realize it. With the failing education and financial systems and the propaganda levels turned up to 11, I'm beginning to doubt it.

kakarot 10y ago

You're missing the point. Someone already had proof. Snowden was the one who managed to bring it to a mass audience. And I love him and respect him immensely for that. But I'm sure he also feels the same disdain that it took him completely destroying his life to convince people that something nefarious has been going on when many clues were already public and just routinely dismissed by people like the other guy arguing with me right now. Yeah, he gave lots of evidence on programs we didn't even know existed. Like, the full extent of this situation. But we already had enough information to know that we should demand legislation and oversight and that 1984 has all but come true.