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I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . If you really want to do th

I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . If you really want to do this use public transportation .

ars 10y ago
> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . I fail to see what one has to do with the other. Can you explain? Seems to me the opposite is the case - as a contractor the driver has full control, but as an employee how hard he works has little to do with how much he gets paid.
- pseudalopex 10y ago
  About the only thing the drivers control is when they work. They can't negotiate their rates. A 4.5/5 average rating gets them fired. Uber penalizes them for declining less profitable jobs. So the argument is that the drivers are actually employees, and classifying them as contractors is a way to dodge taxes and externalize risk.
taude 10y ago
Yes, "socially conscious" isn't really the ride adjective I was looking for...something more like integrity, or even positive ethics, but that's not the work either.
smoyer 10y ago
Uber isn't really ride-sharing anymore.
bmelton 10y ago
> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious I don't understand why not. I have a total of five friends who have each chosen to drive for various ridesharing companies, and in the conversations I've had with them, it seems pretty clear that none of them would be drivers if they couldn't set their own schedules, or if they were otherwise treated as actual employees. To be fair, only one of them is driving as their main source of income; the other four are driving to supplement their day jobs for side money. The flexible schedule is crucial to that. The fifth prefers flexible scheduling as well. Though he might otherwise be considered a 'full time' employee, he working a schedule around a non-standard custodial agreement with his ex-wife, which means he might drive for 14-15 hours in one day, and none in another.
- Retric 10y ago
  Flexible schedules has almost nothing to do with employees vs contractors.
  - sillysaurus3 10y ago
    It seems related.
  - zimablue 10y ago
    In the UK at least, flexible time and place of work (as well as use of company equipment to do your work) are considerations when considering whether you can be classed as self employed. Re the base comment, it's almost not worth replying to as any: "you can't do X and consider yourself Y" comments are in themselves silly, because answering in the general case - I have a different definition of Y to you - you can think of our internal definitions as an ordering of <things related to Y> by <how efficient it is for me to do thing in advancing the cause of Y>. For example, I care a lot about humanity being happier and more equal but I think that in the long term this is something which will have to be provided by the state and not employers, so I'm ambivalent towards laws trying to push employers into a paternal role.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Pulcinella 10y ago
    Uh yes it does. If you are sitting your own hours, they definitely points towards contractor. https://www.oregon.gov/ODA/shared/Documents/Publications/NaturalResources/20FactorTestforIndependentContractors.pdf https://www.oregon.gov/ODA/shared/Documents/Publications/Nat...
    - Retric 10y ago
      It's a 20 question scale so on it's own it means nothing. But yes when combined with a lot of other evidence it vaguely hints to contractor.
  - 10y ago
jeffdavis 10y ago
The only thing fundamental about Lyft is that you use an app to request a ride and Lyft helps route that to a nearby driver. That sounds like a completely reasonable business that serves a useful need. Whether the drivers are employees, contractors, or volunteers is an implementation detail. If laws, public opinion, or economics change, the fundamental business still seems reasonable and useful.
morgante 10y ago
> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious You state that like it's a proven fact, when it's anything but. I personally think it's farcical to treat Uber drivers as employees. They have no set schedule, location, or expectations. They're constantly making ad-hoc decisions on which rides to accept. The closest analogue is traditional taxi drivers, who also aren't employees.
mahyarm 10y ago
You don't think medallion taxi drivers are not contractors also? Ask you next taxi driver how much he is paying to rent his taxi and how it all works. Maybe he'll be an employee, but more likely he will be paying a flat fee of $3000/month to the medallion owner and doesn't make money for himself until he's paid off that debt. And that is in my small hometown of 300k people.
valuearb 10y ago
I'm a contractor, am I somehow less socially desirable to you?

I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . If you really want to do this use public transportation .

ars 10y ago

> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious . I fail to see what one has to do with the other. Can you explain? Seems to me the opposite is the case - as a contractor the driver has full control, but as an employee how hard he works has little to do with how much he gets paid.

pseudalopex 10y ago
About the only thing the drivers control is when they work. They can't negotiate their rates. A 4.5/5 average rating gets them fired. Uber penalizes them for declining less profitable jobs. So the argument is that the drivers are actually employees, and classifying them as contractors is a way to dodge taxes and externalize risk.

taude 10y ago

Yes, "socially conscious" isn't really the ride adjective I was looking for...something more like integrity, or even positive ethics, but that's not the work either.

smoyer 10y ago

Uber isn't really ride-sharing anymore.

bmelton 10y ago

> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious I don't understand why not. I have a total of five friends who have each chosen to drive for various ridesharing companies, and in the conversations I've had with them, it seems pretty clear that none of them would be drivers if they couldn't set their own schedules, or if they were otherwise treated as actual employees. To be fair, only one of them is driving as their main source of income; the other four are driving to supplement their day jobs for side money. The flexible schedule is crucial to that. The fifth prefers flexible scheduling as well. Though he might otherwise be considered a 'full time' employee, he working a schedule around a non-standard custodial agreement with his ex-wife, which means he might drive for 14-15 hours in one day, and none in another.

Retric 10y ago
Flexible schedules has almost nothing to do with employees vs contractors.
- sillysaurus3 10y ago
  It seems related.
- zimablue 10y ago
  In the UK at least, flexible time and place of work (as well as use of company equipment to do your work) are considerations when considering whether you can be classed as self employed. Re the base comment, it's almost not worth replying to as any: "you can't do X and consider yourself Y" comments are in themselves silly, because answering in the general case - I have a different definition of Y to you - you can think of our internal definitions as an ordering of <things related to Y> by <how efficient it is for me to do thing in advancing the cause of Y>. For example, I care a lot about humanity being happier and more equal but I think that in the long term this is something which will have to be provided by the state and not employers, so I'm ambivalent towards laws trying to push employers into a paternal role.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Pulcinella 10y ago
  Uh yes it does. If you are sitting your own hours, they definitely points towards contractor. https://www.oregon.gov/ODA/shared/Documents/Publications/NaturalResources/20FactorTestforIndependentContractors.pdf https://www.oregon.gov/ODA/shared/Documents/Publications/Nat...
  - Retric 10y ago
    It's a 20 question scale so on it's own it means nothing. But yes when combined with a lot of other evidence it vaguely hints to contractor.
- 10y ago

jeffdavis 10y ago

The only thing fundamental about Lyft is that you use an app to request a ride and Lyft helps route that to a nearby driver. That sounds like a completely reasonable business that serves a useful need. Whether the drivers are employees, contractors, or volunteers is an implementation detail. If laws, public opinion, or economics change, the fundamental business still seems reasonable and useful.

morgante 10y ago

> I don't think you can support a ridesharing company that by design treats employees as contractors and also be socially conscious You state that like it's a proven fact, when it's anything but. I personally think it's farcical to treat Uber drivers as employees. They have no set schedule, location, or expectations. They're constantly making ad-hoc decisions on which rides to accept. The closest analogue is traditional taxi drivers, who also aren't employees.

mahyarm 10y ago

You don't think medallion taxi drivers are not contractors also? Ask you next taxi driver how much he is paying to rent his taxi and how it all works. Maybe he'll be an employee, but more likely he will be paying a flat fee of $3000/month to the medallion owner and doesn't make money for himself until he's paid off that debt. And that is in my small hometown of 300k people.

valuearb 10y ago

I'm a contractor, am I somehow less socially desirable to you?