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Oh, I dunno. I thought it was an interesting experiment. I think it still has its uses. Facebook is hardly a monopoly in the sense that google or microsoft w

Oh, I dunno. I thought it was an interesting experiment. I think it still has its uses. Facebook is hardly a monopoly in the sense that google or microsoft was. I know tonnes of people who don't use facebook and the people who do use it, it's usually just to connect with friends. Facebook / instagram / messenger, from what I can see, are just hard charging innovative platforms trying to create products people like. Their businesses could crater pretty easily and the only reason it doesn't is because they keep trying different things. It's not like search and microsoft's OS dominance / network effects from their Office products. You don't need to log onto facebook in order to work, you chose to because it's fun and you can connect with friends. Google / MSFT have far deeper hooks.

madeofpalk 10y ago
> Facebook [is] just hard charging innovative platforms trying to create products people like That's a pretty charitable interpretation of Instant Articles.
onion2k 10y ago
I know tonnes of people who don't use facebook and the people who do use it, it's usually just to connect with friends. Facebook has 1.86 billion monthly active users as of Q4 2016[1]. At that time approximately 3.4 billion people used the internet. So a little over 1/2 the internet-using population, and 1/4 of everyone on Earth, has a Facebook account that they access at least once a month. If you drill down a bit about 80% of American adults use Facebook regularly[2]. You may know tonnes of people who don't use Facebook, but I think that's actually quite unusual. Outside of our HN-reading, privacy-interested, technically-competent bubble the overwhelming majority of people use Facebook, and Facebook does have an effective monopoly. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/01/technology/facebook-earnings/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/01/technology/facebook-earnings... [2] http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/11/11/social-media-update-2016/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/11/11/social-media-update-20...
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- insickness 10y ago
  80% of the country using facebook 'regularly' is not a monopoly. And even if it were, what are they monopolizing, social media in general? Just because 80% of the country visits McDonald's regularly does not make them a monopoly.
  - H4CK3RM4N 10y ago
    There's also a scary number of people in developing countries who will report that they use Facebook, but not 'the internet'. Developing countries are the market Facebook could dominate, in the same way Microsoft dominated computers for normal people.
    - scriptkiddy 10y ago
      This is the scariest thing. Facebook tried to basically monopolize the Internet in India and other developing countries with Internet.org. There's a bunch of info out there on the subject, but this wired article is a good introduction: https://www.wired.com/2015/05/backlash-facebooks-free-internet-service-grows/ https://www.wired.com/2015/05/backlash-facebooks-free-intern...
  - danieldk 10y ago
    That is a bad analogy. You can start a family diner tomorrow and compete with McDonalds. There is nothing preventing that 80% to eat at your place. However, you cannot start a social network tomorrow and expect to make a reasonable income. People will not join your network, because their friends are not there. Facebook holds a significant part of the world population hostage, because they cannot 'dine' somewhere else. Contrast this with a situation where social networks are federated. You could opt to go to a competing network because their service is better, without losing contacts to your friends. I would not know if that qualifies as a monopoly legally, but there is clearly a huge difference between McDonalds and Facebook.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      While network effects exist and are worrying, this is a bit too strong - you can have two accounts concurrently, and many people do. Hence why FB had to buy Instagram and Whatsapp, and why Snapshat has more than a hundred million users.
- blazespin 10y ago
  Lol, try everyone under the age of 20. Facebook's survival is hardly assured. Why do you think zuck is working so hard on VR or why he split off messenger - because he knows facebooks survival is limited. What's app and Instagram is more of a threat than FB. You people obviously don't use FB< if you did you'd realize that there is huge fatigue on the platform The reason FB has done well is because they did some smart, viral things, but they can't just iterate like google or msft. They will die very quickly if they do. It's a very tenuous business they have
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Lol, try everyone under the age of 20. LOL, those people will grow up too, and a large percentage of them will join places like FB and even LinkedIn. It's not like what people use in their teens is what they use when they get older, start working, etc. Besides "What's app and Instagram is more of a threat than FB" is missing the point, as both are owned by FB, the company.
  - onion2k 10y ago
    Facebook's survival is hardly assured. Of course, but it'd take a long series of significant mistakes by Facebook for them to actually die. While another social network could potentially eat their market Facebook aren't just going to sit idly by and let them. They have the resources to tackle pretty much any threat, so the only way for them to fail is by getting things wrong internally. No one is going to invent a new way of communicating that Facebook can't copy. Why do you think zuck is working so hard on VR or why he split off messenger - because he knows facebooks survival is limited. What's app and Instagram is more of a threat than FB. I suspect a lot of Facebook's 'side projects' are driven by what Zuck finds interesting rather than what he thinks is important to Facebook's future. You people obviously don't use FB< if you did you'd realize that there is huge fatigue on the platform I don't think it's possible to gauge 1.86 billion people's opinions of Facebook by the things you see when you log in to your own account.
    - blazespin 10y ago
      I am not sure people want another social network. It's not like search or computer OS or even Netflix. My feeling is that FB, as is (social news feeds), has no real future. I think the future is messenger, WhatsApp, instagram, vr, etc. The reason fb is popular is zucks sheer force of Will and not because it's particularly necessary.
lucideer 10y ago
I think you might be surprised at Facebook's levels of control https://twitter.com/auchenberg/status/834894652775923712?s=09 https://twitter.com/auchenberg/status/834894652775923712?s=0...

madeofpalk 10y ago

> Facebook [is] just hard charging innovative platforms trying to create products people like That's a pretty charitable interpretation of Instant Articles.

onion2k 10y ago

I know tonnes of people who don't use facebook and the people who do use it, it's usually just to connect with friends. Facebook has 1.86 billion monthly active users as of Q4 2016[1]. At that time approximately 3.4 billion people used the internet. So a little over 1/2 the internet-using population, and 1/4 of everyone on Earth, has a Facebook account that they access at least once a month. If you drill down a bit about 80% of American adults use Facebook regularly[2]. You may know tonnes of people who don't use Facebook, but I think that's actually quite unusual. Outside of our HN-reading, privacy-interested, technically-competent bubble the overwhelming majority of people use Facebook, and Facebook does have an effective monopoly. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/01/technology/facebook-earnings/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/01/technology/facebook-earnings... [2] http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/11/11/social-media-update-2016/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/11/11/social-media-update-20...

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insickness 10y ago
80% of the country using facebook 'regularly' is not a monopoly. And even if it were, what are they monopolizing, social media in general? Just because 80% of the country visits McDonald's regularly does not make them a monopoly.
- H4CK3RM4N 10y ago
  There's also a scary number of people in developing countries who will report that they use Facebook, but not 'the internet'. Developing countries are the market Facebook could dominate, in the same way Microsoft dominated computers for normal people.
  - scriptkiddy 10y ago
    This is the scariest thing. Facebook tried to basically monopolize the Internet in India and other developing countries with Internet.org. There's a bunch of info out there on the subject, but this wired article is a good introduction: https://www.wired.com/2015/05/backlash-facebooks-free-internet-service-grows/ https://www.wired.com/2015/05/backlash-facebooks-free-intern...
- danieldk 10y ago
  That is a bad analogy. You can start a family diner tomorrow and compete with McDonalds. There is nothing preventing that 80% to eat at your place. However, you cannot start a social network tomorrow and expect to make a reasonable income. People will not join your network, because their friends are not there. Facebook holds a significant part of the world population hostage, because they cannot 'dine' somewhere else. Contrast this with a situation where social networks are federated. You could opt to go to a competing network because their service is better, without losing contacts to your friends. I would not know if that qualifies as a monopoly legally, but there is clearly a huge difference between McDonalds and Facebook.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    While network effects exist and are worrying, this is a bit too strong - you can have two accounts concurrently, and many people do. Hence why FB had to buy Instagram and Whatsapp, and why Snapshat has more than a hundred million users.
blazespin 10y ago
Lol, try everyone under the age of 20. Facebook's survival is hardly assured. Why do you think zuck is working so hard on VR or why he split off messenger - because he knows facebooks survival is limited. What's app and Instagram is more of a threat than FB. You people obviously don't use FB< if you did you'd realize that there is huge fatigue on the platform The reason FB has done well is because they did some smart, viral things, but they can't just iterate like google or msft. They will die very quickly if they do. It's a very tenuous business they have
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Lol, try everyone under the age of 20. LOL, those people will grow up too, and a large percentage of them will join places like FB and even LinkedIn. It's not like what people use in their teens is what they use when they get older, start working, etc. Besides "What's app and Instagram is more of a threat than FB" is missing the point, as both are owned by FB, the company.
- onion2k 10y ago
  Facebook's survival is hardly assured. Of course, but it'd take a long series of significant mistakes by Facebook for them to actually die. While another social network could potentially eat their market Facebook aren't just going to sit idly by and let them. They have the resources to tackle pretty much any threat, so the only way for them to fail is by getting things wrong internally. No one is going to invent a new way of communicating that Facebook can't copy. Why do you think zuck is working so hard on VR or why he split off messenger - because he knows facebooks survival is limited. What's app and Instagram is more of a threat than FB. I suspect a lot of Facebook's 'side projects' are driven by what Zuck finds interesting rather than what he thinks is important to Facebook's future. You people obviously don't use FB< if you did you'd realize that there is huge fatigue on the platform I don't think it's possible to gauge 1.86 billion people's opinions of Facebook by the things you see when you log in to your own account.
  - blazespin 10y ago
    I am not sure people want another social network. It's not like search or computer OS or even Netflix. My feeling is that FB, as is (social news feeds), has no real future. I think the future is messenger, WhatsApp, instagram, vr, etc. The reason fb is popular is zucks sheer force of Will and not because it's particularly necessary.

lucideer 10y ago

I think you might be surprised at Facebook's levels of control https://twitter.com/auchenberg/status/834894652775923712?s=09 https://twitter.com/auchenberg/status/834894652775923712?s=0...