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Isn't that the problem? If the fishermen only look at Brexit through the lens of the fishing industry they cannot be expected to understand the effects of Brexi

Isn't that the problem? If the fishermen only look at Brexit through the lens of the fishing industry they cannot be expected to understand the effects of Brexit on all of society. This can be expanded to any group, even your classy ad hominem "remoaners". Brexit has such wide consequences that it shouldn't have been a decision based on opinions.

Safety1stClyde 9y ago
> If the fishermen only look at Brexit through the lens of the fishing industry they cannot be expected to understand the effects of Brexit on all of society. This can be expanded to any group, even your classy ad hominem "remoaners". Not to be sarcastic or rude, but the comment you're responding to actually does say exactly what you said there. The remainers did not seem to care very much about the fishing industry, and they've shown no ability to understand the effects of the EU or leaving the EU on other groups of people, such as the fishermen.
- louithethrid 9y ago
  All of society is always all of me, maybe some friends, ocassionally family, but definatly me - im all of society. But i dont want to soundt egocentric. The massesmolasses are definatly with me, i can feel the avalanch of opinion, everytime i go online, like a huge fluid-physics simulation, going towards the drain, that is my viewpoint. The strange thing is, this even occurs, if i had a radical change of opinion. The people dont just have the same opinion as me, they follow me- im the chosen one, as prophezized by the facebook.
- notahacker 9y ago
  Alternate hypothesis: the remainers noted that whilst the effects of the EU on the fishing industry may have been bad there are only around 10,000 fishermen in the whole of the UK[1] whose livelihoods aren't guaranteed to be improved by leaving, and there was no reason not to prioritise the far greater number of jobs and revenues in other industries that are threatened by leaving. Or more likely, most of them didn't because few people understand the intricacies of the Common Fisheries Policy or financial passporting and their respective impacts on the job market and most people actually tended to make their decision out of a vague sense of whether right-wing politicians shouting about taking back control of their borders resonated with or appalled them. [1]and fishing jobs were lost at a much faster rate last century before the UK joined the EU than afterwards. Needless to say, the proportion of the 17 million people who voted Leave who were affected by the Common Fisheries Policy is vanishingly small.
mike-cardwell 9y ago
Who can "be expected to understand the effects of Brexit on all of society" ? I'm pretty sure the majority of economics and finance experts only looked at this through the lens of how it would affect the economy. And even then only at a macro level. I'm pretty sure the majority of politicians were mostly concerned with how it would affect the macro economy too, and also how it would affect the UKs ability to project power and influence. The media? Selling to their demographic of choice. I was told to frame the question in terms of "How will it effect how rich and powerful the UK is? And are you a racist?". Instead, I framed it in terms of "How do I want my descendants to be governed". I don't believe my political representatives would have framed the question that way, so I feel more qualified than them to make that decision. Even though it was based on opinion.
- literallycancer 9y ago
  How do you want your descendants to be governed then?
  - mike-cardwell 9y ago
    By a government of people who grew up in the same culture, speaking the same language. I believe they will get better representation that way. I want a Europe full of states which collaborate and trade and compete with each other, but where ultimate political and legal power is at the state level. I don't think that the economies of scale gained by handing over political control to a central European government are worth the loss of sovereignty and representation in the long term. I want further devolution of powers. Not further centralisation. I think this is a necessity if you want a government that works for the people instead of against them.
    - literallycancer 9y ago
      I'd much prefer a Europe where the countries work together to compete against the US and China, rather than compete among themselves and get pushed around by the more powerful players. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but I expect the post-Brexit UK to get less and less relevant, especially after Scotland leaves.

Safety1stClyde 9y ago

> If the fishermen only look at Brexit through the lens of the fishing industry they cannot be expected to understand the effects of Brexit on all of society. This can be expanded to any group, even your classy ad hominem "remoaners". Not to be sarcastic or rude, but the comment you're responding to actually does say exactly what you said there. The remainers did not seem to care very much about the fishing industry, and they've shown no ability to understand the effects of the EU or leaving the EU on other groups of people, such as the fishermen.

louithethrid 9y ago
All of society is always all of me, maybe some friends, ocassionally family, but definatly me - im all of society. But i dont want to soundt egocentric. The massesmolasses are definatly with me, i can feel the avalanch of opinion, everytime i go online, like a huge fluid-physics simulation, going towards the drain, that is my viewpoint. The strange thing is, this even occurs, if i had a radical change of opinion. The people dont just have the same opinion as me, they follow me- im the chosen one, as prophezized by the facebook.
notahacker 9y ago
Alternate hypothesis: the remainers noted that whilst the effects of the EU on the fishing industry may have been bad there are only around 10,000 fishermen in the whole of the UK[1] whose livelihoods aren't guaranteed to be improved by leaving, and there was no reason not to prioritise the far greater number of jobs and revenues in other industries that are threatened by leaving. Or more likely, most of them didn't because few people understand the intricacies of the Common Fisheries Policy or financial passporting and their respective impacts on the job market and most people actually tended to make their decision out of a vague sense of whether right-wing politicians shouting about taking back control of their borders resonated with or appalled them. [1]and fishing jobs were lost at a much faster rate last century before the UK joined the EU than afterwards. Needless to say, the proportion of the 17 million people who voted Leave who were affected by the Common Fisheries Policy is vanishingly small.

mike-cardwell 9y ago

Who can "be expected to understand the effects of Brexit on all of society" ? I'm pretty sure the majority of economics and finance experts only looked at this through the lens of how it would affect the economy. And even then only at a macro level. I'm pretty sure the majority of politicians were mostly concerned with how it would affect the macro economy too, and also how it would affect the UKs ability to project power and influence. The media? Selling to their demographic of choice. I was told to frame the question in terms of "How will it effect how rich and powerful the UK is? And are you a racist?". Instead, I framed it in terms of "How do I want my descendants to be governed". I don't believe my political representatives would have framed the question that way, so I feel more qualified than them to make that decision. Even though it was based on opinion.

literallycancer 9y ago
How do you want your descendants to be governed then?
- mike-cardwell 9y ago
  By a government of people who grew up in the same culture, speaking the same language. I believe they will get better representation that way. I want a Europe full of states which collaborate and trade and compete with each other, but where ultimate political and legal power is at the state level. I don't think that the economies of scale gained by handing over political control to a central European government are worth the loss of sovereignty and representation in the long term. I want further devolution of powers. Not further centralisation. I think this is a necessity if you want a government that works for the people instead of against them.
  - literallycancer 9y ago
    I'd much prefer a Europe where the countries work together to compete against the US and China, rather than compete among themselves and get pushed around by the more powerful players. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but I expect the post-Brexit UK to get less and less relevant, especially after Scotland leaves.