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> as well as the larger open source ecosystem. There must be a reason for this though, one of the reasons why Java has a good ecosystem is because it's had a h

> as well as the larger open source ecosystem. There must be a reason for this though, one of the reasons why Java has a good ecosystem is because it's had a huge head start in terms of time and mindshare. At the same time though, what's stopping people from making the open source ecosystem in .NET really good? There must be a reason, is it cultural?

voltagex_ 10y ago
Could it just be time? Since VS Community was released, there's no huge blocker for someone to develop for .NET (other than Windows itself).
- _pmf_ 10y ago
  95% of companies cannot use VS Community Edition because their revenue is too high.
nl 10y ago
There must be a reason for this though, one of the reasons why Java has a good ecosystem is because it's had a huge head start in terms of time and mindshare. This doesn't seem to be a complete explanation. I was doing Java heavily in the early 2000s, and open source Java was pretty new still. Apache Struts[1] was possibly the first big OS Java project, and it was only released in 2000. The first version of .NET was released in 2002, and something like Rails was only released in 2004. "Head start" doesn't seem to explain this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Struts_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Struts_1
rsynnott 10y ago
Until very recently, .NET has only really been usable on Windows. Nobody uses Windows for 'web scale' (ugh) stuff; it's expensive and historically was difficult to automate. So there's less incentive to make really high quality libraries for it; Guava would never happen, say, because companies like Google don't use Windows.
zigzigzag 10y ago
.NET is primarily used by two cultures that don't place a big emphasis on open source development: Windows and giant in-house enterprise IT projects, often at banks. Banks have historically struggled with open source: it took a long time for them to start using it, and much longer still to start contributing. Java's focus on cross-platform support from the start probably seemed like a waste of resources back in the 1990s when Windows was so dominant, but it had the advantage of making it more popular amongst UNIX users and the existing open source culture. Java going open source long before .NET also contributed to this. The end result is that you get organisations like Red Hat, Apache, IBM that create vast quantities of high quality open source Java code, and a culture that is steeped in open source development. Whereas in .NET it's rare to use components not built by Microsoft and when they do exist they are typically proprietary, same as in the 1990s.

voltagex_ 10y ago

Could it just be time? Since VS Community was released, there's no huge blocker for someone to develop for .NET (other than Windows itself).

_pmf_ 10y ago
95% of companies cannot use VS Community Edition because their revenue is too high.

nl 10y ago

There must be a reason for this though, one of the reasons why Java has a good ecosystem is because it's had a huge head start in terms of time and mindshare. This doesn't seem to be a complete explanation. I was doing Java heavily in the early 2000s, and open source Java was pretty new still. Apache Struts[1] was possibly the first big OS Java project, and it was only released in 2000. The first version of .NET was released in 2002, and something like Rails was only released in 2004. "Head start" doesn't seem to explain this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Struts_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Struts_1

rsynnott 10y ago

Until very recently, .NET has only really been usable on Windows. Nobody uses Windows for 'web scale' (ugh) stuff; it's expensive and historically was difficult to automate. So there's less incentive to make really high quality libraries for it; Guava would never happen, say, because companies like Google don't use Windows.

zigzigzag 10y ago

.NET is primarily used by two cultures that don't place a big emphasis on open source development: Windows and giant in-house enterprise IT projects, often at banks. Banks have historically struggled with open source: it took a long time for them to start using it, and much longer still to start contributing. Java's focus on cross-platform support from the start probably seemed like a waste of resources back in the 1990s when Windows was so dominant, but it had the advantage of making it more popular amongst UNIX users and the existing open source culture. Java going open source long before .NET also contributed to this. The end result is that you get organisations like Red Hat, Apache, IBM that create vast quantities of high quality open source Java code, and a culture that is steeped in open source development. Whereas in .NET it's rare to use components not built by Microsoft and when they do exist they are typically proprietary, same as in the 1990s.