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A majority of comments here seem to think that literally millions of units of electronics are being shredded wastefully, instead of more meaningfully re-used. O

A majority of comments here seem to think that literally millions of units of electronics are being shredded wastefully, instead of more meaningfully re-used. Ok, great! This is HN! Where are the calls to start a company to leverage this near-infinite supply of valuable trash through economically productive re-use? Should be very profitable, right? Another distinct possibility is that the proportion of valuable items in this stream is too small to warrant their recovery. There are already tons of people that refurb and sell computers. It's a small market, and increasing the supply by 100x (or whatever the multiple of "wasted" recycling opportunities is) would likely distort that market into total collapse.

ChuckMcM 9y ago
I take it you're being facetious. The referenced article discusses some of the contractual language that Apple uses to hinder re-use, and they aren't the only ones. The real risk of course are unscrupulous vendors who sell as 'new' things they have recovered either on Ebay or Amazon which turns around and bites the original manufacturer because the customer complains their parts are bad. Having dealt with many of the major recycling centers in the bay area, and the resellers, and the various people in between, the maze of laws and contracts make unwinding this nearly impractical in most cases. It is pretty amazing when someone is willing to sneak a $250,000 mini-computer to you out the back of the building because the corporate "requirements" are that a perfectly serviced and operating machine be sent to shredding rather than do anything else. Of course you really can't make a business off their largess but a number of important computer systems were saved in similar ways. Generally there is often more value to the manufacturer that they not be recycled and so we end up with these sorts of contracts.
qb45 9y ago
> A majority of comments here seem to think that literally millions of units of electronics are being shredded wastefully, instead of more meaningfully re-used. Ok, great! This is HN! Where are the calls to start a company to leverage this near-infinite supply of valuable trash through economically productive re-use? Should be very profitable, right? There are already companies doing it. TFA talks about iThings collected by Apple themselves whose recycling Apple outsourced to others under the condition that everything will be teared down to raw materials. Have a look here for some real recycling action: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14100989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14100989 edit: Hell, it's right there in TFA: "Electronics recyclers are filled with heaps of broken iMacs and MacBooks, which due to economics and the requirements of certifications are most often scrapped rather than repaired or sold," John Bumstead, a refurbisher who sells MacBooks that he salvages and frankensteins together from broken ones that he gets from recyclers that don't work with Apple, told me. In trying to source MacBooks to repair, Bumstead says he's been turned away countless times by recyclers who say they can't sell him Apple products. So yeah, the question is not whether recycling itself is profitable or not. The problem is that Apple apparently has sufficient profit margins that to them recycling is less profitable than shredding the old iGadgets to raw materials and reforging them into the latest shiny. Especially if it's done in China where the resulting pollution doesn't affect them as much.
prodmerc 9y ago
It can be profitable. But yeah, the market is small. I've looked into this before - even the poorer Eastern European countries prefer new products to refurbished ones. And that seems to mirror the opinion of a lot (probably most) people.
fsociety 9y ago
There is an entire industry out there for re-using and repairing these electronics. The unfortunate part is that the great Apple steamroller, and many other large companies, are fighting against the right-to-repair bill. I can only imagine there are other industries which use these devices in other countries, much like the Save the Rainforest link that someone else posted on this comment thread. Much like our previous election, people aren't showing up to voice their concerns of not having the right-to-repair their electronics. This doesn't just affect iPhone users either.. this includes farmers. Having grown up on a farm, being able to fix your own equipment is absolutely essential - no debate possible. I kid you not, one of the arguments against the right-to-repair is that you could repair your microwave and it might blow up and harm you. What a load of bull. If you, or anyone else, is interested I highly suggest watching this video of an owner of a repair shop in New York. This guy has travelled to defend our right-to-repair, but the problem is not enough people are fighting back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F66BapDvpU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F66BapDvpU8 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/industry-and-apple-opposing-right-to-repair-laws/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/industry-and-app...

ChuckMcM 9y ago

I take it you're being facetious. The referenced article discusses some of the contractual language that Apple uses to hinder re-use, and they aren't the only ones. The real risk of course are unscrupulous vendors who sell as 'new' things they have recovered either on Ebay or Amazon which turns around and bites the original manufacturer because the customer complains their parts are bad. Having dealt with many of the major recycling centers in the bay area, and the resellers, and the various people in between, the maze of laws and contracts make unwinding this nearly impractical in most cases. It is pretty amazing when someone is willing to sneak a $250,000 mini-computer to you out the back of the building because the corporate "requirements" are that a perfectly serviced and operating machine be sent to shredding rather than do anything else. Of course you really can't make a business off their largess but a number of important computer systems were saved in similar ways. Generally there is often more value to the manufacturer that they not be recycled and so we end up with these sorts of contracts.

qb45 9y ago

> A majority of comments here seem to think that literally millions of units of electronics are being shredded wastefully, instead of more meaningfully re-used. Ok, great! This is HN! Where are the calls to start a company to leverage this near-infinite supply of valuable trash through economically productive re-use? Should be very profitable, right? There are already companies doing it. TFA talks about iThings collected by Apple themselves whose recycling Apple outsourced to others under the condition that everything will be teared down to raw materials. Have a look here for some real recycling action: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14100989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14100989 edit: Hell, it's right there in TFA: "Electronics recyclers are filled with heaps of broken iMacs and MacBooks, which due to economics and the requirements of certifications are most often scrapped rather than repaired or sold," John Bumstead, a refurbisher who sells MacBooks that he salvages and frankensteins together from broken ones that he gets from recyclers that don't work with Apple, told me. In trying to source MacBooks to repair, Bumstead says he's been turned away countless times by recyclers who say they can't sell him Apple products. So yeah, the question is not whether recycling itself is profitable or not. The problem is that Apple apparently has sufficient profit margins that to them recycling is less profitable than shredding the old iGadgets to raw materials and reforging them into the latest shiny. Especially if it's done in China where the resulting pollution doesn't affect them as much.

prodmerc 9y ago

It can be profitable. But yeah, the market is small. I've looked into this before - even the poorer Eastern European countries prefer new products to refurbished ones. And that seems to mirror the opinion of a lot (probably most) people.

fsociety 9y ago

There is an entire industry out there for re-using and repairing these electronics. The unfortunate part is that the great Apple steamroller, and many other large companies, are fighting against the right-to-repair bill. I can only imagine there are other industries which use these devices in other countries, much like the Save the Rainforest link that someone else posted on this comment thread. Much like our previous election, people aren't showing up to voice their concerns of not having the right-to-repair their electronics. This doesn't just affect iPhone users either.. this includes farmers. Having grown up on a farm, being able to fix your own equipment is absolutely essential - no debate possible. I kid you not, one of the arguments against the right-to-repair is that you could repair your microwave and it might blow up and harm you. What a load of bull. If you, or anyone else, is interested I highly suggest watching this video of an owner of a repair shop in New York. This guy has travelled to defend our right-to-repair, but the problem is not enough people are fighting back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F66BapDvpU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F66BapDvpU8 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/industry-and-apple-opposing-right-to-repair-laws/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/industry-and-app...