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> I'm glad the project exists and I hope it's stable enough to be adopted by companies in the future - my fear is that debian/rhel are entrenched now though. I

by jnbiche 10y ago

> I'm glad the project exists and I hope it's stable enough to be adopted by companies in the future - my fear is that debian/rhel are entrenched now though. It's not just debian/ubuntu/rhel, almost everyone has moved to systemd, even Arch Linux and Gentoo. As much as I agree with the ideas behind Devuan, knowing and understanding all the intricacies of systemd is now required knowledge for anyone doing Linux-based software development or devops. After putting it off for a while, I've moved on and have learned systemd. It's not the way I would have liked for the Linux ecosystem to have moved (I thought upstart was a decent base to build on), but I'm clearly in the minority here. What's bothering most at this point are the binary log formats. But that changes from week to week. But it's here to stay, so I'm getting used to it.

reddytowns 10y ago
While Gentoo supports systemd, by default it will still use init scripts.
- jnbiche 10y ago
  > While Gentoo supports systemd, by default it will still use init scripts. It's my understanding that notwithstanding the current accomodations, systemd is the future for Gentoo, is that incorrect? I'm not a Gentoo user, just what I've heard from people who are.
  - JdeBP 10y ago
    It is my observation as an outsider to Gentoo and Arch that the people who use them are not wholly opposed to everything not systemd (or OpenRC). * http://repo.or.cz/archnosh.git http://repo.or.cz/archnosh.git * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Nosh https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Nosh
  - johnny22 10y ago
    where did you read that? I thought they were sticking with openrc.
mxvzr 10y ago
While you can find stage3 tarballs for systemd, OpenRC is still the default for Gentoo AFAIK. (And speaking of Arch Linux, I can't really say I miss initscripts)
dijit 10y ago
I have a standing policy regarding systemd. It's fine for my desktop and laptop, it's not fine for my server. My servers (generally speaking) do one thing and that thing absolutely can't be mucked with, systemd does a lot of what I would consider mucking.. binary complexity and weird integration I seriously dislike. But it's actually beneficial on a desktop system. My friends who have learned systemd are basically the same as you- "Eh, it's alright when it works.. and it's where everyone has gone so I guess I'll live with it" I take exception to that statement entirely, this is open source, the land where you can replace your kernel with a BSD one and continue trucking with GNU ultilities as if nothing happened basically- why do we have to go backwards in usability for someones ego. (and it's hard for me not to see it as one mans ego given his repeated hostility and arrogance regarding how other people use computers professionally)
- jnbiche 10y ago
  > I take exception to that statement entirely, this is open source, the land where you can replace your kernel with a BSD one and continue trucking with GNU ultilities Fair enough. And to be fair to me, I've been thinking seriously about moving my workstation over to a BSD. But even if I do that, I'd still have to deal with Linux for work at times.

by jnbiche 10y ago

reddytowns 10y ago

While Gentoo supports systemd, by default it will still use init scripts.

jnbiche 10y ago
> While Gentoo supports systemd, by default it will still use init scripts. It's my understanding that notwithstanding the current accomodations, systemd is the future for Gentoo, is that incorrect? I'm not a Gentoo user, just what I've heard from people who are.
- JdeBP 10y ago
  It is my observation as an outsider to Gentoo and Arch that the people who use them are not wholly opposed to everything not systemd (or OpenRC). * http://repo.or.cz/archnosh.git http://repo.or.cz/archnosh.git * https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Nosh https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Nosh
- johnny22 10y ago
  where did you read that? I thought they were sticking with openrc.

mxvzr 10y ago

While you can find stage3 tarballs for systemd, OpenRC is still the default for Gentoo AFAIK. (And speaking of Arch Linux, I can't really say I miss initscripts)

dijit 10y ago

I have a standing policy regarding systemd. It's fine for my desktop and laptop, it's not fine for my server. My servers (generally speaking) do one thing and that thing absolutely can't be mucked with, systemd does a lot of what I would consider mucking.. binary complexity and weird integration I seriously dislike. But it's actually beneficial on a desktop system. My friends who have learned systemd are basically the same as you- "Eh, it's alright when it works.. and it's where everyone has gone so I guess I'll live with it" I take exception to that statement entirely, this is open source, the land where you can replace your kernel with a BSD one and continue trucking with GNU ultilities as if nothing happened basically- why do we have to go backwards in usability for someones ego. (and it's hard for me not to see it as one mans ego given his repeated hostility and arrogance regarding how other people use computers professionally)

jnbiche 10y ago
> I take exception to that statement entirely, this is open source, the land where you can replace your kernel with a BSD one and continue trucking with GNU ultilities Fair enough. And to be fair to me, I've been thinking seriously about moving my workstation over to a BSD. But even if I do that, I'd still have to deal with Linux for work at times.