5 ms·
Vaclav Smil has written extensively on the embodied chemistry of Wind-turbines, I figure it's worth sharing here because it seems relevant to the conversation.
by kumarski 10y ago
Vaclav Smil has written extensively on the embodied chemistry of Wind-turbines, I figure it's worth sharing here because it seems relevant to the conversation. Chemical, petroleum, and nuclear engineers are scarce in Silicon Valley.....
"Wind turbines are the most visible symbols of the quest for renewable electricity generation. And yet, although they exploit the wind, which is as free and as green as energy can be, the machines themselves are pure embodiments of fossil fuels.
Large trucks bring steel and other raw materials to the site, earth-moving equipment beats a path to otherwise inaccessible high ground, large cranes erect the structures, and all these machines burn diesel fuel. So do the freight trains and
cargo ships that convey the materials needed for the production of cement, steel,and plastics. For a 5-megawatt turbine, the steel alone averages 150 metric tons for the reinforced concrete foundations, 250 metric tons for the rotor hubs and nacelles (which house the gearbox and generator), and 500 metric tons for the towers.
If wind-generated electricity were to supply 25 percent of
global demand by 2030 (forecast to reach about 30 petawatt-hours), then even with a high average capacity factor of 35 percent, the aggregate installed wind power of about 2.5 terawatts would require roughly 450 million metric tons of
steel. And that’s without counting the metal for towers, wires, and transformers for the new high-voltage transmission links that would be needed to connect it all to the grid. A lot of energy goes into making steel.
Sintered or pelletized iron ore is smelted in blast furnaces, charged with coke made from coal, and receives infusions of powdered coal and natural gas. Pig iron is decarbonized in basic oxygen furnaces. Then steel goes through continuous casting processes (which turn molten steel directly into the rough shape of the final product). Steel used in turbine construction embodies typically about 35 gigajoules per metric ton.
To make the steel required for wind turbines that might operate by 2030, you’d need fossil fuels equivalent to more than 600 million metric tons of coal.
A 5-MW turbine has three roughly 60-meter-long airfoil, each weighing about 15 metric tons. They have light balsa or foam cores and outer laminations made mostly from glass-fiber-reinforced epoxy or polyester resins. The glass is made by
melting silicon dioxide and other mineral oxides in furnaces fired by natural gas. The resins begin with ethylene derived from light hydrocarbons, most commonly the products of naphtha cracking, liquefied petroleum gas, or the ethane in natural gas.
The final fiber-reinforced composite embodies on the order of 170 GJ/t. Therefore, to get 2.5 TW of installed wind power by
2030, we would need an aggregate rotor mass of about 23 million metric tons, incorporating the equivalent of about 90 million metric tons of crude oil. And when all is in place, the entire structure must be waterproofed with resins whose synthesis starts with ethylene.
Another required oil product is lubricant, for the turbine gearboxes, which has to be changed periodically during
the machine’s two-decade lifetime. Undoubtedly, a well-sited and well-built wind turbine would generate as much energy as it embodies in less than a year. However, all of it will be in the form of intermittent electricity—while its production,
installation, and maintenance remain critically dependent on specific fossil energies.
Moreover, for most of these energies—coke for iron-ore smelting, coal and petroleum coke to fuel cement kilns, naphtha and natural gas as feedstock and fuel for the synthesis of plastics and the making of fiberglass, diesel fuel for ships, trucks, and construction machinery, lubricants for gearboxes—we have no nonfossil substitutes that would be readily available on the requisite large commercial scales.
For a long time to come—until all energies used to produce wind turbines and photovoltaic cells come from renewable energy sources—modern civilization will
remain fundamentally dependent on fossil fuels."
- _ph_ 10y agoWhat a long row of impressive numbers. But what counts, is only one single number: how long does it take for the wind turbine to produce more power than it took to produce. And as far as I know, it is a rather small amount of its life time. After that it starts to improve our carbon balance. And all of this does not take into respect, that with the raising ratio of our energy being produced by wind or solar, the production of windmills and solar cells becomes more and more carbon free too.
- CydeWeys 10y agoExactly. This litany of numbers without meaningful comparison is just an attempt at obfuscation. Of course wind turbines require resources to construct; no one ever claimed otherwise. But they create a lot more energy over their lifetime than they cost to create, which is the whole reason they're built at all. And as impressive as those figures sound, they pale in comparison to how much fossil fuels are being burnt simply to provide energy, at a complete dead loss, with no future energy dividends paid whatsoever (as you'd get with wind turbines). Constructing turbines is like buying stock in a good company, whereas burning fossil fuels for energy needs is like frittering away all your income and living paycheck to paycheck.
- tgjsrkghruksd 10y agoActually, the little point that undermines this litany is buried right in the middle: "Undoubtedly, a well-sited and well-built wind turbine would generate as much energy as it embodies in less than a year." So, do turbines last more than a year? Much more than a year? Ok then!
- _ph_ 10y agoI missed that in the huge bunch of less relevant numbers. This makes the article an even bigger troll, trying to hide the true number. Also the talk about "intermittent" is quite misleading. Yes wind power depends on the wind. But that is quite well predictable in those places, where you would install a wind generator. With a reasonable electrical grid, this can be quite well managed.