5 ms·

I really don't like the popular concept of "genius". It's divisive and trivialises the accomplishments and struggles of people who aren't "geniuses".

Godel_unicode 9y ago
I disagree. Calling someone a genius and someone else not is akin to calling someone a terrific athlete or not. Your excellence in no way diminishes the value of my attempts. It does put my success (or lack there of) into perspective and gives me a meter for what excellence looks like. That's a good thing, though. Having something higher to strive for, and knowing that it's possible to do better, is a significant factor in personal growth.
- chongli 9y ago
  Yeah, seriously. How is it any more divisive than calling somebody "seven feet tall"? Verrrrrrrrry few people reach that height, yet it would be laughable to suggest that their presence on a basketball team somehow diminishes the accomplishments of people of average height.
  - badpenny 9y ago
    Because height is a spectrum and easily and accurately quantifiable, whereas "genius" is neither.
    - chongli 9y ago
      Genius is not a spectrum, but neither is "seven feet tall". If you're looking for something to compare to height, look at IQ.
      - badpenny 9y ago
        You're the one who used the analogy. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Height is a spectrum and yes, IQ is a spectrum. "Seven feet tall" is an easily identifiable point along the height spectrum. "Genius" is not an easily identifiable point along the IQ spectrum. It's a wishy-washy, overly emotive term that lumps certain people into an elite group which, by the popular conception of the word, you're either born into or you're not. It says more about the people who use it than the people they're bestowing the title upon. But hey, if you like the term and get your kicks seeing it bandied about, good for you. I find it trite and counterproductive.
        chongli 9y ago
        The purpose of making the distinction is not to get my kicks but to highlight that there's more to success than hard work. The idea that all you need is to work hard enough and you can do whatever you want is a pernicious lie used to prop up the corollary: "You didn't succeed, so obviously you didn't work hard enough." By drawing the analogy to height, I thought the point would be obvious. Telling somebody who is 5'2" that they "didn't work hard enough" after they failed to get drafted into the NBA is just cruel. I think the same argument applies for somebody with an IQ of 85 hoping to win a gold medal at the IMO or a Fields Medal. People are in elite groups along many different metrics: wealth, intelligence, height, strength, athleticism, etc. Hard work is what it takes for somebody who is already in one or more of those elite groups to succeed on the world stage. Millions more work just as hard but aren't in those groups and typically don't win the big contests.
kartan 9y ago
> It's divisive and trivialises the accomplishments and struggles of people who aren't "geniuses". I agree. But I will add that it also devalues the hard work of "geniuses". The concept of "geniuses" don't bring any value to anyone, except to novel writers. :)
- Isamu 9y ago
  Exactly, it trivializes both the "geniuses" hard work and the hard work of anyone trying to do something non-trivial.
- Godel_unicode 9y ago
  I find this attitude particularly strange, given that I find stories about geniuses inspiring. I like to read about/talk with people who are elite in their field of endeavor, I find it amazing what they can accomplish with hard work and grit. I do find the excuse "oh, he's a genius, I can't do that" to be annoying though, maybe that's what you're referring to?

Godel_unicode 9y ago

I disagree. Calling someone a genius and someone else not is akin to calling someone a terrific athlete or not. Your excellence in no way diminishes the value of my attempts. It does put my success (or lack there of) into perspective and gives me a meter for what excellence looks like. That's a good thing, though. Having something higher to strive for, and knowing that it's possible to do better, is a significant factor in personal growth.

chongli 9y ago
Yeah, seriously. How is it any more divisive than calling somebody "seven feet tall"? Verrrrrrrrry few people reach that height, yet it would be laughable to suggest that their presence on a basketball team somehow diminishes the accomplishments of people of average height.
- badpenny 9y ago
  Because height is a spectrum and easily and accurately quantifiable, whereas "genius" is neither.
  - chongli 9y ago
    Genius is not a spectrum, but neither is "seven feet tall". If you're looking for something to compare to height, look at IQ.
    - badpenny 9y ago
      You're the one who used the analogy. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Height is a spectrum and yes, IQ is a spectrum. "Seven feet tall" is an easily identifiable point along the height spectrum. "Genius" is not an easily identifiable point along the IQ spectrum. It's a wishy-washy, overly emotive term that lumps certain people into an elite group which, by the popular conception of the word, you're either born into or you're not. It says more about the people who use it than the people they're bestowing the title upon. But hey, if you like the term and get your kicks seeing it bandied about, good for you. I find it trite and counterproductive.
      - chongli 9y ago
        The purpose of making the distinction is not to get my kicks but to highlight that there's more to success than hard work. The idea that all you need is to work hard enough and you can do whatever you want is a pernicious lie used to prop up the corollary: "You didn't succeed, so obviously you didn't work hard enough." By drawing the analogy to height, I thought the point would be obvious. Telling somebody who is 5'2" that they "didn't work hard enough" after they failed to get drafted into the NBA is just cruel. I think the same argument applies for somebody with an IQ of 85 hoping to win a gold medal at the IMO or a Fields Medal. People are in elite groups along many different metrics: wealth, intelligence, height, strength, athleticism, etc. Hard work is what it takes for somebody who is already in one or more of those elite groups to succeed on the world stage. Millions more work just as hard but aren't in those groups and typically don't win the big contests.

kartan 9y ago

> It's divisive and trivialises the accomplishments and struggles of people who aren't "geniuses". I agree. But I will add that it also devalues the hard work of "geniuses". The concept of "geniuses" don't bring any value to anyone, except to novel writers. :)

Isamu 9y ago
Exactly, it trivializes both the "geniuses" hard work and the hard work of anyone trying to do something non-trivial.
Godel_unicode 9y ago
I find this attitude particularly strange, given that I find stories about geniuses inspiring. I like to read about/talk with people who are elite in their field of endeavor, I find it amazing what they can accomplish with hard work and grit. I do find the excuse "oh, he's a genius, I can't do that" to be annoying though, maybe that's what you're referring to?