3 ms·

In other words, it's about controlling other people's behaviour - which is the very basis of one of the arguments against it.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
It's about pricing back in what is now externality. It's about making things fair. Which is the basis of living in a society. For max freedom, people should move to Somalia.
- duncan_bayne 10y ago
  What makes you think you can achieve maximal freedom without a functioning Government to enforce the rule of law? I think you're erecting and attacking a strawman, there.
  - aurelianito 10y ago
    One of the main attributes of the state is its ability to tax things. You cannot have one without the other. If the bad thing is the tax just for being a tax, then it is legitimate to compare against a no-state situation.
    - duncan_bayne 10y ago
      Also, taxes don't have to be compulsory. Rand addresses several alternatives to compulsory taxation for funding the State in one of her essays. The three main problems with carbon taxes are: * they're compulsory (and therefore theft) * they're guaranteed to be the wrong amount, as attempts to calculate externalities are subject to the socialist calculation problem * they are usually motivated by a desire to control people's behaviour (see the point about driving above)
  - rfrey 10y ago
    "a functioning Government to enforce the rule of law?" i.e. controlling other people's behavior. Also, a tax is a law, so enforcing a tax is enforcing the rule of law. It's just a law that some people don't like.
    - duncan_bayne 10y ago
      > i.e. controlling other people's behavior. Well, yes. Everything from murder to moral, legal police action can be so described. > It's just a law that some people don't like. ... because it's legalised theft. Libertarians (well, minarchist-Libertarians) support Government, and the rule of law. That doesn't mean we support _all_ Governments, or _all_ laws, as moral.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        > because it's legalised theft Yes, and public schools are legalized brainwashing, and hospitals are legalized slaughterhouses (after all, that's where most people die). You can draw many comparisons like these if you ignore the details, but sometimes those details are exactly what's important.
        duncan_bayne 10y ago
        That was my point! The details - specifically, which laws are just, and which aren't - are of paramount importance here.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

It's about pricing back in what is now externality. It's about making things fair. Which is the basis of living in a society. For max freedom, people should move to Somalia.

duncan_bayne 10y ago
What makes you think you can achieve maximal freedom without a functioning Government to enforce the rule of law? I think you're erecting and attacking a strawman, there.
- aurelianito 10y ago
  One of the main attributes of the state is its ability to tax things. You cannot have one without the other. If the bad thing is the tax just for being a tax, then it is legitimate to compare against a no-state situation.
  - duncan_bayne 10y ago
    Also, taxes don't have to be compulsory. Rand addresses several alternatives to compulsory taxation for funding the State in one of her essays. The three main problems with carbon taxes are: * they're compulsory (and therefore theft) * they're guaranteed to be the wrong amount, as attempts to calculate externalities are subject to the socialist calculation problem * they are usually motivated by a desire to control people's behaviour (see the point about driving above)
- rfrey 10y ago
  "a functioning Government to enforce the rule of law?" i.e. controlling other people's behavior. Also, a tax is a law, so enforcing a tax is enforcing the rule of law. It's just a law that some people don't like.
  - duncan_bayne 10y ago
    > i.e. controlling other people's behavior. Well, yes. Everything from murder to moral, legal police action can be so described. > It's just a law that some people don't like. ... because it's legalised theft. Libertarians (well, minarchist-Libertarians) support Government, and the rule of law. That doesn't mean we support _all_ Governments, or _all_ laws, as moral.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      > because it's legalised theft Yes, and public schools are legalized brainwashing, and hospitals are legalized slaughterhouses (after all, that's where most people die). You can draw many comparisons like these if you ignore the details, but sometimes those details are exactly what's important.
      - duncan_bayne 10y ago
        That was my point! The details - specifically, which laws are just, and which aren't - are of paramount importance here.