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I love this response. The H1-B program was meant to import labor only in the case that there is absolutely no American capable of doing the job: in reality, it

I love this response. The H1-B program was meant to import labor only in the case that there is absolutely no American capable of doing the job: in reality, it has become a means of labor arbitrage. Make no mistake though, that labor arbitrage is a challenge special to the U.S. As I have explained in my answer (https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-unemployment-in-the-US/answer/Subhobroto-Sinha-1 https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-une...) and comments (https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-unemployment-in-the-US/comment/1989873 https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-une...) on Quora, most developed nations make extensive use of labor arbitrage. Sure, China and India is the center of labor arbitrage, but there are a lot of applicants from developed countries too. I have spoken with Canadians immigrating to the U.S. because they can't afford to live in Canada; I have spoken with Germans immigrating to the U.S. because they can't afford to live in Germany; I have spoken with Finns immigrating to the U.S. because they can't afford to live in Finland and so on. All have the same story. The reason being that at their home country, the companies are hiring immigrants from developing countries at lower labor costs. That depresses wages for that industry and I am not only talking about tech jobs. My Quora answer shows how doctors are similarly affected: https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-unemployment-in-the-US/comment/1989873 https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-une... The Canadians/Germans/Finns/etc have an expectation for a quality of life they are now unable to maintain on such depressed wages and hence they immigrate to the U.S. Here are some more datapoints: https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-unemployment-in-the-US/comment/2013178 https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-une... None of them are happy they had to immigrate to the U.S. and the U.S. citizens they likely displaced are not happy about that either. I hate the exploitation of the H1-B program: but the H1-B is capitalism, free markets and the global marketplace at its best. The free market does not care if it burns the factory and workers its making money off to the ground. The free market only looks at one thing: Profit.

davidf18 10y ago
> "I hate the exploitation of the H1-B program: but the H1-B is capitalism..." Sure, there is capitalism, but there is also breaking the law. The abuse of the H1-B Visa program is breaking the law since it is only supposed to be used in cases where there is no American qualified to do the job. The law needs changing so that violation means jail time. The EU has a similar problem with working class and hence BrExit as a result. Cheap labor from Eastern Europe has been displacing the British working class. Of course, the elites like this because it means they have to pay less money for labor and the NHS has to pay less for nurses. The US has free trade agreements where there are no or low tariffs but not free movement of labor. NAFTA is one such example. The EU as part of their agreement has low-tariffs and free flow of labor connected and that is why BrExit happened. Even though most Americans are against H1-B the politicians seem to be for expanding the program. Here is Mark Rubio: http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2015/10/30/h-1b-expert-marco-rubio-fakes-opposition-h-1b-outsourcing/ http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2015/10/30/h... Trump won because he was basically the only Republican and along with Sanders the only other candidate that wanted American workers to get paid fairly.
- subhobroto 10y ago
  David, I have read your comments on related threads before and I appreciate the amount of passion and follow through you have. It would be a pleasure hearing your feedback (and connecting with you) > Trump won because he was basically the only Republican and along with Sanders the only other candidate that wanted American workers to get paid fairly. Trump won because he made promises that no other candidate was willing to make because they were more experienced and knew better. Sanders operates on a completely different level. He was the best of all candidates but we don't deserve the likes of Sanders. He will never win the presidency because he's too dedicated to his mission. He's the 60 year old programmer who's been at the company for decades nursing the company's legacy software while the fresh out of college MBA who makes 5x his salary tells him he's missing the bigger picture. > but there is also breaking the law. The abuse of the H1-B Visa program is breaking the law My understanding is that none of the companies are breaking the law. They are surely exploiting the intent of the H1B but their final/end clients are U.S. companies looking to boost their profits by paying less in wages and benefits. These U.S. companies create the demand for these Indian companies to exploit the H1B. The H1B story: U.S. Company: "I have a position for a Senior Bathroom Scrubber in Bumfuck, YZ that pays market rates of $XYZ/yr and sanitation gloves every month" American Worker: "Those 'market rates' are years old. No way I am working as a Senior Bathroom Scrubber in Bumfuck, YZ for $XYZ/yr and janky sanitation gloves every month" Subhobroto (worker from India): "Yeah, I have a M.S. from a U.S. University and don't mind working as a Senior Bathroom Scrubber in Bumfuck, YZ for $XYZ/yr if you apply for my green card. Sanitation gloves provided for me every month is awesome!" U.S. Company: "Ding! Ding! Welcome! We don't have an issue applying for your green card. By the way, we can't promote you and/or increase your salary ever again because reasons A,B,C" American Worker: WTF! Subhobroto (worker from India): "Thank you. I know I'm getting paid less than what I would have made if I had better negotiating power but I will have that power after I have a green card and am not a temporary worker anymore legally required to leave the country immeidately if you fire me, so this is just the price of admission. Plus, I'm getting paid more than if I had worked for a company back in India anyways" End of scene. Subhobroto and U.S. Company walk away into the sunset (to divorce a decade later once the H1B matures to a greencard) leaving behind an angry American Worker. Subhobroto is well aware that he and his future generations will be in the same shoes as the American Worker in a few years, but that's for scene 2. As I show in https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-unemployment-in-the-US/comment/2013178 https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-une..., this is not unique to the U.S. You can replace "American Worker" with "German Worker" and so on with no loss in generality. Feel free to connect with me: https://www.quora.com/profile/Subhobroto-Sinha-1 https://www.quora.com/profile/Subhobroto-Sinha-1

davidf18 10y ago

> "I hate the exploitation of the H1-B program: but the H1-B is capitalism..." Sure, there is capitalism, but there is also breaking the law. The abuse of the H1-B Visa program is breaking the law since it is only supposed to be used in cases where there is no American qualified to do the job. The law needs changing so that violation means jail time. The EU has a similar problem with working class and hence BrExit as a result. Cheap labor from Eastern Europe has been displacing the British working class. Of course, the elites like this because it means they have to pay less money for labor and the NHS has to pay less for nurses. The US has free trade agreements where there are no or low tariffs but not free movement of labor. NAFTA is one such example. The EU as part of their agreement has low-tariffs and free flow of labor connected and that is why BrExit happened. Even though most Americans are against H1-B the politicians seem to be for expanding the program. Here is Mark Rubio: http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2015/10/30/h-1b-expert-marco-rubio-fakes-opposition-h-1b-outsourcing/ http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2015/10/30/h... Trump won because he was basically the only Republican and along with Sanders the only other candidate that wanted American workers to get paid fairly.

subhobroto 10y ago
David, I have read your comments on related threads before and I appreciate the amount of passion and follow through you have. It would be a pleasure hearing your feedback (and connecting with you) > Trump won because he was basically the only Republican and along with Sanders the only other candidate that wanted American workers to get paid fairly. Trump won because he made promises that no other candidate was willing to make because they were more experienced and knew better. Sanders operates on a completely different level. He was the best of all candidates but we don't deserve the likes of Sanders. He will never win the presidency because he's too dedicated to his mission. He's the 60 year old programmer who's been at the company for decades nursing the company's legacy software while the fresh out of college MBA who makes 5x his salary tells him he's missing the bigger picture. > but there is also breaking the law. The abuse of the H1-B Visa program is breaking the law My understanding is that none of the companies are breaking the law. They are surely exploiting the intent of the H1B but their final/end clients are U.S. companies looking to boost their profits by paying less in wages and benefits. These U.S. companies create the demand for these Indian companies to exploit the H1B. The H1B story: U.S. Company: "I have a position for a Senior Bathroom Scrubber in Bumfuck, YZ that pays market rates of $XYZ/yr and sanitation gloves every month" American Worker: "Those 'market rates' are years old. No way I am working as a Senior Bathroom Scrubber in Bumfuck, YZ for $XYZ/yr and janky sanitation gloves every month" Subhobroto (worker from India): "Yeah, I have a M.S. from a U.S. University and don't mind working as a Senior Bathroom Scrubber in Bumfuck, YZ for $XYZ/yr if you apply for my green card. Sanitation gloves provided for me every month is awesome!" U.S. Company: "Ding! Ding! Welcome! We don't have an issue applying for your green card. By the way, we can't promote you and/or increase your salary ever again because reasons A,B,C" American Worker: WTF! Subhobroto (worker from India): "Thank you. I know I'm getting paid less than what I would have made if I had better negotiating power but I will have that power after I have a green card and am not a temporary worker anymore legally required to leave the country immeidately if you fire me, so this is just the price of admission. Plus, I'm getting paid more than if I had worked for a company back in India anyways" End of scene. Subhobroto and U.S. Company walk away into the sunset (to divorce a decade later once the H1B matures to a greencard) leaving behind an angry American Worker. Subhobroto is well aware that he and his future generations will be in the same shoes as the American Worker in a few years, but that's for scene 2. As I show in https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-unemployment-in-the-US/comment/2013178 https://www.quora.com/Are-H-1B-visas-causing-large-scale-une..., this is not unique to the U.S. You can replace "American Worker" with "German Worker" and so on with no loss in generality. Feel free to connect with me: https://www.quora.com/profile/Subhobroto-Sinha-1 https://www.quora.com/profile/Subhobroto-Sinha-1