4 ms·

dont reduce Rust and Go relative success to just having google or mozilla Rust and Go .. made better design choices that made them more popular

by systems 10y ago

camus2 10y ago
> dont reduce Rust and Go relative success to just having google or Mozilla I don't think Go would have been popular without Google. It's easier to sell a solution to your manager when it is backed by a big org, and when people are paid fulltime to work on it. Same for Rust and Mozilla. The barrier for adoption of new languages is pretty high today in enterprise space.
- systems 10y ago
  so why did python and ruby became popular and why isnt dart more popular
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    Python became popular because many people saw it as a cleaned-up Perl, and ESR wrote about it. Ruby became popular because of Rails. Dart isn't popular because it was designed to be a browser language but did little to court Web developers who like JS (contrary to the HN consensus, a lot of Web developers actually like JS) or other browser vendors.
    - systems 10y ago
      so you agree with me, we python and ruby didnt need a huge corporate backing and dart even with some corporate backing didnt become popular more examples that debunk that corporate backing is what made rust or go ... are scala and clojure, scala being way more popular than d and clojure ... and neither have corporate backing in conclusion, you dont really need corporate backing if you have a nicely designed language that have its own path
      - shakna 10y ago
        I also said 'mindshare'. Cs syntax can be awful. Similar symbols with different meanings. But, it was powerful, fast and simpler than some competitors. Bash is frequently used today, for all sorts of things. Its even in production products, like git. However, even its creator thought it was a kludge. There is no simple answer to language success, but a large group of people adopting and improving a language is probably going to be helpful.
        systems 10y ago
        d is not unpopular because of lack of corporate backing d is unpopular because of poor project objectives and positioning and playing catch up with other languages rather than leading in any specific area d needs a novel idea ... i guess they made bet on execution rather than innovation
klickverbot 10y ago
> Rust and Go .. made better design choices that made them more popular [citation needed]
- iopq 10y ago
  I found Rust by googling languages that compile to LLVM bytecode. It was version 0.6, but I was already excited by the fact that it was promising to be a fast, safe, concurrent language. Even back then it had a value proposition to early adopters. I wrote a Fizzbuzz implementation. I did it to test language features. As language features and the standard library kept on changing, I kept updating my repository. It's had something like 70+ commits to it since 0.6 days. https://bitbucket.org/iopq/fizzbuzz-in-rust/src/d4638b2ba3f09efe053ee0c4251036607847987c/src/lib.rs?at=master&fileviewer=file-view-default https://bitbucket.org/iopq/fizzbuzz-in-rust/src/d4638b2ba3f0... it's a little bit more complicated than necessary BECAUSE it's a test of new functionality (even now it only compiles on Nightly) but it has a certain charm to it (fizzbuzz done in a few filter and map operations)
kmicklas 10y ago
Rust yes, Go just has Google.
- systems 10y ago
  i like your logic .. but i think Go have more than just Google, it also had Rob Pike and Ken Thompson as designers two legendary programmers
  - kmicklas 10y ago
    And yet somehow they managed to ignore the majority of what has been learned in the last several decades of language design progress.
    - grzm 10y ago
      Given their experience, I strongly suspect they made the choices they did knowingly, rather than out of ignorance.
      - mcguire 10y ago
        These two comments are not mutually incompatible. There is also a reason I've been heard to say that Not Invented Here syndrome was invented at Bell Labs.
mhh__ 10y ago
Better design choices or better design?

dont reduce Rust and Go relative success to just having google or mozilla Rust and Go .. made better design choices that made them more popular

by systems 10y ago

dont reduce Rust and Go relative success to just having google or mozilla Rust and Go .. made better design choices that made them more popular

camus2 10y ago

> dont reduce Rust and Go relative success to just having google or Mozilla I don't think Go would have been popular without Google. It's easier to sell a solution to your manager when it is backed by a big org, and when people are paid fulltime to work on it. Same for Rust and Mozilla. The barrier for adoption of new languages is pretty high today in enterprise space.

systems 10y ago
so why did python and ruby became popular and why isnt dart more popular
- pcwalton 10y ago
  Python became popular because many people saw it as a cleaned-up Perl, and ESR wrote about it. Ruby became popular because of Rails. Dart isn't popular because it was designed to be a browser language but did little to court Web developers who like JS (contrary to the HN consensus, a lot of Web developers actually like JS) or other browser vendors.
  - systems 10y ago
    so you agree with me, we python and ruby didnt need a huge corporate backing and dart even with some corporate backing didnt become popular more examples that debunk that corporate backing is what made rust or go ... are scala and clojure, scala being way more popular than d and clojure ... and neither have corporate backing in conclusion, you dont really need corporate backing if you have a nicely designed language that have its own path
    - shakna 10y ago
      I also said 'mindshare'. Cs syntax can be awful. Similar symbols with different meanings. But, it was powerful, fast and simpler than some competitors. Bash is frequently used today, for all sorts of things. Its even in production products, like git. However, even its creator thought it was a kludge. There is no simple answer to language success, but a large group of people adopting and improving a language is probably going to be helpful.
      - systems 10y ago
        d is not unpopular because of lack of corporate backing d is unpopular because of poor project objectives and positioning and playing catch up with other languages rather than leading in any specific area d needs a novel idea ... i guess they made bet on execution rather than innovation

klickverbot 10y ago

> Rust and Go .. made better design choices that made them more popular [citation needed]

iopq 10y ago
I found Rust by googling languages that compile to LLVM bytecode. It was version 0.6, but I was already excited by the fact that it was promising to be a fast, safe, concurrent language. Even back then it had a value proposition to early adopters. I wrote a Fizzbuzz implementation. I did it to test language features. As language features and the standard library kept on changing, I kept updating my repository. It's had something like 70+ commits to it since 0.6 days. https://bitbucket.org/iopq/fizzbuzz-in-rust/src/d4638b2ba3f09efe053ee0c4251036607847987c/src/lib.rs?at=master&fileviewer=file-view-default https://bitbucket.org/iopq/fizzbuzz-in-rust/src/d4638b2ba3f0... it's a little bit more complicated than necessary BECAUSE it's a test of new functionality (even now it only compiles on Nightly) but it has a certain charm to it (fizzbuzz done in a few filter and map operations)

kmicklas 10y ago

Rust yes, Go just has Google.

systems 10y ago
i like your logic .. but i think Go have more than just Google, it also had Rob Pike and Ken Thompson as designers two legendary programmers
- kmicklas 10y ago
  And yet somehow they managed to ignore the majority of what has been learned in the last several decades of language design progress.
  - grzm 10y ago
    Given their experience, I strongly suspect they made the choices they did knowingly, rather than out of ignorance.
    - mcguire 10y ago
      These two comments are not mutually incompatible. There is also a reason I've been heard to say that Not Invented Here syndrome was invented at Bell Labs.

mhh__ 10y ago

Better design choices or better design?