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What exactly is your definition of "middle class" and "upper middle class?" "Should have no problem getting $1M by age 55" is totally not just "middle class."

What exactly is your definition of "middle class" and "upper middle class?" "Should have no problem getting $1M by age 55" is totally not just "middle class." by my definition its "rich as fuck." and I'm saying that as someone who grew up poor and is now "rich as fuck." We can save ~70% of our take home salary and have enough spending cash to, literary, do whatever the fuck we want without ever worrying about the cost. > Everything else is working poor. "Yeah, you're poor if you aren't a millionaire by your 50s" is so silly I would believe it to be satire in a different context. >15 year mortgage on a house. I could have gotten a 15 year mortgage, strongly considered it, but I went with 30 because the interest rate was absurdly low so I believe I'd make better return investing that money rather than putting it towards my house. It's a risk/tradeoff I was willing to take. Everyone's situation is different. If you absolutely require a 30 year mortgage on your home to make payments and don't have a good down payment or savings, you probably can't really afford it though. >Don't have kids until 30's There's both pros and cons to having kids younger vs older. It's an individual choice if and when to have children. > Tech pays well (initially), but require along hours. Be prepared to do nothing but work in your 20's That's silly, it certainly doesn't have to require long hours. I don't work long hours and I certainly didn't in my 20s either. In my 20s I worked less with more flexible hours than most of my peers. >$80k educational savings for each kid Oh, God, no!! Paying my own way through school is what made me make good choices. If my parents gave me $80K towards school I would have never taken it seriously nor understood the value of $80k. >Remember 55 is elderly. No, its not. Again, all this stuff about being fired at 55, it's a Silicon Valley startup culture nonsense. >home ownership Is certainly not for everyone!!

madengr 9y ago
> What exactly is your definition of "middle class" and "upper middle class?" Upper middle class is retirement and educational savings, and not living paycheck to paycheck. I believe it's 70% of households could not come up with $1k within 2 weeks. 90% could not miss a paycheck without skipping bills. Middle class these days is living pay-check to paycheck. That used to be working poor. The working poor will rely on housing/food/medical aid. The 30 year mortgage is fine as long as the investment difference can be liquidated to pay it off at 15 years (or in early 50s. I paid $100/credit-HR at KU 23 years ago. That did not require debt. I worked a few hrs/week and was able to handle the full engineering course-load. It's now $10k/semester (that includes room). Can't be done debt free with any major, much less STEM course load. Hence my $80k minimum for education. Guy in the cube next to me graduated in 71 and paid full tuition (including room) by only working summers. He is the oldest here at 67. They are running him out; I'm the old man soon. The next oldest is me at 45. Every one else is 20's or just barely 30. $1M assets is not rich these days; not by far. I work at old school, boring fortune 50 company. Plenty of people walked out at 55. That won't happen if you are good; I mean GOOD. Eat, sleep, breath circuit design. That's me. Can I keep it for 10 or 20 years; we'll see. About 10% of STEM majors are still in STEM by mid career (40s). 50% are out by 5 years, or never even enter it upon graduation.
- nommm-nommm 9y ago
  >Upper middle class is retirement and educational savings, and not living paycheck to paycheck. For the love of God! Give me a break! If you can't somehow manage to do that while making over $100k you are living way way way above your means, period. You can live over your means at any income level and adding more income doesn't solve that problem. Sure, maybe if I owned two Beemers, a Cadillac, a boat, and a second home I'd be unable to do that. >I believe it's 70% of households could not come up with $1k within 2 weeks. 90% could not miss a paycheck without skipping bills. That says more about spending habits than is does income. >as long as the investment difference can be liquidated to pay it off at 15 years (or in early 50s. Your can never know your investment returns. >Can't be done debt free with any major, much less STEM course load. So what? I went into debt for an education and it wasn't a bad thing. Its my opinion that downright giving your kids money is a bad thing. I made my choices accordingly. I would be a total loser nowadays if my parents gave me money, for my education or otherwise. Its also in my opinion that parents obsessing over saving money for college is a big cause of rising tuition.

madengr 9y ago

> What exactly is your definition of "middle class" and "upper middle class?" Upper middle class is retirement and educational savings, and not living paycheck to paycheck. I believe it's 70% of households could not come up with $1k within 2 weeks. 90% could not miss a paycheck without skipping bills. Middle class these days is living pay-check to paycheck. That used to be working poor. The working poor will rely on housing/food/medical aid. The 30 year mortgage is fine as long as the investment difference can be liquidated to pay it off at 15 years (or in early 50s. I paid $100/credit-HR at KU 23 years ago. That did not require debt. I worked a few hrs/week and was able to handle the full engineering course-load. It's now $10k/semester (that includes room). Can't be done debt free with any major, much less STEM course load. Hence my $80k minimum for education. Guy in the cube next to me graduated in 71 and paid full tuition (including room) by only working summers. He is the oldest here at 67. They are running him out; I'm the old man soon. The next oldest is me at 45. Every one else is 20's or just barely 30. $1M assets is not rich these days; not by far. I work at old school, boring fortune 50 company. Plenty of people walked out at 55. That won't happen if you are good; I mean GOOD. Eat, sleep, breath circuit design. That's me. Can I keep it for 10 or 20 years; we'll see. About 10% of STEM majors are still in STEM by mid career (40s). 50% are out by 5 years, or never even enter it upon graduation.

nommm-nommm 9y ago
>Upper middle class is retirement and educational savings, and not living paycheck to paycheck. For the love of God! Give me a break! If you can't somehow manage to do that while making over $100k you are living way way way above your means, period. You can live over your means at any income level and adding more income doesn't solve that problem. Sure, maybe if I owned two Beemers, a Cadillac, a boat, and a second home I'd be unable to do that. >I believe it's 70% of households could not come up with $1k within 2 weeks. 90% could not miss a paycheck without skipping bills. That says more about spending habits than is does income. >as long as the investment difference can be liquidated to pay it off at 15 years (or in early 50s. Your can never know your investment returns. >Can't be done debt free with any major, much less STEM course load. So what? I went into debt for an education and it wasn't a bad thing. Its my opinion that downright giving your kids money is a bad thing. I made my choices accordingly. I would be a total loser nowadays if my parents gave me money, for my education or otherwise. Its also in my opinion that parents obsessing over saving money for college is a big cause of rising tuition.