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The article is somewhat ironic, in light of the fact that in comparison to Western Europe, Russia is a very sexist society. Gender stereotypes are extremely com

The article is somewhat ironic, in light of the fact that in comparison to Western Europe, Russia is a very sexist society. Gender stereotypes are extremely common here (one can safely express them with no fear of getting a reprimand from local PC officer), gender identity politics is non-existent, and feminism is ridiculed, mocked or considered weird by the majority of people I've met.

microcolonel 9y ago
Maybe gender stereotypes and feminism have little or nothing to do with Women's economic choices. Maybe it's because Russia is generally poor and competitive; these measures are more predictive anywhere else.
ar15saveslives 9y ago
> from local PC officer > gender identity politics is non-existent > feminism is ridiculed, mocked or considered weird For me it sounds like totally reasonable and healthy society.
- voice_of_reason 9y ago
  It looks like HN PC brigade has arrived and punished you for voicing a thoughtcrime.
mistermann 9y ago
I think I must be misunderstanding you...when you say the article is ironic, do you mean it is wrong? To me it is the behavior of non-Russian societies behavior towards women that is ironic, acting as if there was this huge conspiracy from society to "keep women down", which I've always felt was utter nonsense but you dare not say such things in polite company, whereas according to this article, it is actually these do-gooders who think they are trying to help women who are actually the ones harming them! That must be what you were thinking as well and I just misinterpreted you?
- voice_of_reason 9y ago
  Ironic in a sense that "misogynist" Russian society is "better" at "encouraging women into tech" than enlightened Brave New World of the West.
mvdwoord 9y ago
Interesting point, reminds of the issue Jordan Peterson (iirc) once posed on Scandinavia. It seems there certain gender stereotypes are very strong, e.g. extremely low percentage men as nurses and women as engineers etc. His point was that if you actively remove or forcefully "balance" all other factors, the only remaining factor is the biological difference between men and women. This will be therefore exaggerated and you end up with the exact opposite result from what you intended. Not sure if is 100% correct, but an interesting point of view nonetheless. Perhaps in Russia it is a similar effect, reversed.
cat199 9y ago
Not actually been - but from observations of Russians I've seen I'd also say that: a) Intelligence is strongly valued in general, with women being no exception. There is no native faux-ironic 'im a math geek nurrrg so i have to be awkward because noone understands me' or 'look at the nerd what a dork' culture.. b) Russian women aren't afraid of being strong willed, and this is also valued c) Russian women seem to have a stronger notion of 'womanhood' and 'sisterhood' - similarly 'adulthood' and 'solidarity' are more generally valued - so hiding behind or supporting immaturity and selfishly infighting is less dominant/accepted d) The general cultural philosophy is (despite bad eggs as anywhere) a focus on personal excellence and service to community/society/nation, rather than a desire for personal gratification according to abstract self-selected individual preferences e) People call out BS when they see it, and this is considered a good thing, rather than 'being rude' or 'disrespecting everyones right to their own opinion' So while perhaps sexist jokes and activities are allowed in some areas, in other areas actually acting on them - or letting them get to you or not calling them out in others - is dishonourable, a personal 'cultural liability' (e.g. cause for being ostracised), and to be avoided. Of course there are exceptions everywhere, and this is observation and generalization - not an absolute statement of fact, also put with a bit of an ideal spin to underscore the argument..
glenra 9y ago
> in comparison to Western Europe [in Russia] gender identity politics is non-existent, and feminism is ridiculed In western society an especially smart, capable woman has the option to gain status/prestige by studying feminism. Perhaps in Russia they don't have that option - there's no high-profile X-studies program to aspire to - so they learn something like math and excel at that instead.

microcolonel 9y ago

Maybe gender stereotypes and feminism have little or nothing to do with Women's economic choices. Maybe it's because Russia is generally poor and competitive; these measures are more predictive anywhere else.

ar15saveslives 9y ago

> from local PC officer > gender identity politics is non-existent > feminism is ridiculed, mocked or considered weird For me it sounds like totally reasonable and healthy society.

voice_of_reason 9y ago
It looks like HN PC brigade has arrived and punished you for voicing a thoughtcrime.

mistermann 9y ago

I think I must be misunderstanding you...when you say the article is ironic, do you mean it is wrong? To me it is the behavior of non-Russian societies behavior towards women that is ironic, acting as if there was this huge conspiracy from society to "keep women down", which I've always felt was utter nonsense but you dare not say such things in polite company, whereas according to this article, it is actually these do-gooders who think they are trying to help women who are actually the ones harming them! That must be what you were thinking as well and I just misinterpreted you?

voice_of_reason 9y ago
Ironic in a sense that "misogynist" Russian society is "better" at "encouraging women into tech" than enlightened Brave New World of the West.

mvdwoord 9y ago

Interesting point, reminds of the issue Jordan Peterson (iirc) once posed on Scandinavia. It seems there certain gender stereotypes are very strong, e.g. extremely low percentage men as nurses and women as engineers etc. His point was that if you actively remove or forcefully "balance" all other factors, the only remaining factor is the biological difference between men and women. This will be therefore exaggerated and you end up with the exact opposite result from what you intended. Not sure if is 100% correct, but an interesting point of view nonetheless. Perhaps in Russia it is a similar effect, reversed.

cat199 9y ago

Not actually been - but from observations of Russians I've seen I'd also say that: a) Intelligence is strongly valued in general, with women being no exception. There is no native faux-ironic 'im a math geek nurrrg so i have to be awkward because noone understands me' or 'look at the nerd what a dork' culture.. b) Russian women aren't afraid of being strong willed, and this is also valued c) Russian women seem to have a stronger notion of 'womanhood' and 'sisterhood' - similarly 'adulthood' and 'solidarity' are more generally valued - so hiding behind or supporting immaturity and selfishly infighting is less dominant/accepted d) The general cultural philosophy is (despite bad eggs as anywhere) a focus on personal excellence and service to community/society/nation, rather than a desire for personal gratification according to abstract self-selected individual preferences e) People call out BS when they see it, and this is considered a good thing, rather than 'being rude' or 'disrespecting everyones right to their own opinion' So while perhaps sexist jokes and activities are allowed in some areas, in other areas actually acting on them - or letting them get to you or not calling them out in others - is dishonourable, a personal 'cultural liability' (e.g. cause for being ostracised), and to be avoided. Of course there are exceptions everywhere, and this is observation and generalization - not an absolute statement of fact, also put with a bit of an ideal spin to underscore the argument..

glenra 9y ago

> in comparison to Western Europe [in Russia] gender identity politics is non-existent, and feminism is ridiculed In western society an especially smart, capable woman has the option to gain status/prestige by studying feminism. Perhaps in Russia they don't have that option - there's no high-profile X-studies program to aspire to - so they learn something like math and excel at that instead.