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Do you have any data on this? I'd be willing to bet women are nowhere near as interested in a pure science career in Russia as they are in IT. I think it has

by raducu 10y ago

Do you have any data on this? I'd be willing to bet women are nowhere near as interested in a pure science career in Russia as they are in IT. I think it has to do with psycho-evolutionary factors -- men have much more incentives to take risks, women much more so to play it safe.

laughingman2 10y ago
Yeah right, and how did you arrive at your reasoning, any list of scientific studies? This is good old sexist/racist talk "X is inferior in math because genes"
- eof 10y ago
  This is not just humans, virtually every species has obvious gender roles and proclivities. Where humans differ, is our faculty for reason and (to some degree) overcoming our intuition. In my opinion, it's obvious that women being under represented in STEM is caused significantly by both evolutionary /and/ cultural factors.
- raducu 10y ago
  That is not what I was saying, far from it. My evidence is anecdotal, but think about it -- Russia recently decriminalized domestic violence, not exactly the hallmark of gender equality, that's surely not the reason why more females are interested in IT in Russia. I was not suggesting that females are inferior to men, just that males and females will make vastly different life choices because of psycho-evolution. It's a scientific fact that while male and female median IQ is the same, men have much more variability (more men at the extremes). Just think about your reproductive strategy(not necessarily in the modern monogamous society)-- you have bilions upon billions of sperm replenished every day while females produce one egg per month. A smarter/fitter man can produce much more offsprings than a smarter/fitter female. That has got to produce some profound differences in the way men and women behave.
  - laughingman2 10y ago
    Anecdotal evidence means shit, of course there is biological difference between men and women. The point is you making arbitrary claims using it without evidence is stupid. Centuries ago there were no women scientists, now there are, so does that mean the people like you in the transitory period claiming "Women can never be scientists due to psycho-evolution (whatever bullshit that is)" are right. Without scientific evidence, your psycho-evolutionary boundary on what is achievable by men or women is just convenient excuse for sexism because it changes and is arbitary.
    - raducu 10y ago
      That's a straw man, I never said either sex should or shouldn't be a scientist or whatever they choose to be. What I AM saying is maybe, just maybe there's no conspiracy against women and that women and men make different life an career choices which can simply be explained by bullshit psycho-evolution.
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  I don't see the parent comment saying anything about either race, or inferiority. Just proclivity to want to do something. Maybe chill out a bit on the accusatory kneejerk reaction, this is meant to be a forum for civil discussion.
  - bigtimeidiot 10y ago
    >Maybe chill out a bit on the accusatory kneejerk reaction, this is meant to be a forum for civil discussion. Without fail, during any discussion about tech and gender on these boards, "nice guys" come out of the woodwork as staunch advocates of equality in the workplace, their message couched in accusatory and bullying language. I'll bet they're closer to being part of the problem with the industry, rather than the solution.
    - beaconstudios 10y ago
      I know the type you mean, and I agree. However, that's not what the previous commenter was doing. I don't think it's sexist to suggest that on average, men and women may have different interests - whatever you think it's caused by, it's observable from reality. If they had said that women aren't as capable as men at programming I'd be right there with you, but kneejerk accusations of sexism do nothing but stifle debate and make people feel attacked. At least determine whether what the person said was indeed sexist before launching into attacking them.
      - beaconstudios 10y ago
        [if I could edit, I would] I later realised you were referring to laughingman2 as being the niceguy. Yeah, totally agree.
gkya 10y ago
Maybe it's just because most men don't want to do feminine jobs and most women don't want to do masculine jobs. We're all social human beings at the end of the day, and we want to be cool, attractive individuals, and most of us care about others' eyes on us.
thriftwy 10y ago
There are a lot of female young (and not-so-young too!) scientists in Russia today. The pay is not great and a lot of hoops to jump, but the hours are usually flexible. Maybe some women don't feel pressure to be breadwinners, so they can choose a career in science, but men feel that they have to make more money than science ever promises in Russia.

by raducu 10y ago

laughingman2 10y ago

Yeah right, and how did you arrive at your reasoning, any list of scientific studies? This is good old sexist/racist talk "X is inferior in math because genes"

eof 10y ago
This is not just humans, virtually every species has obvious gender roles and proclivities. Where humans differ, is our faculty for reason and (to some degree) overcoming our intuition. In my opinion, it's obvious that women being under represented in STEM is caused significantly by both evolutionary /and/ cultural factors.
raducu 10y ago
That is not what I was saying, far from it. My evidence is anecdotal, but think about it -- Russia recently decriminalized domestic violence, not exactly the hallmark of gender equality, that's surely not the reason why more females are interested in IT in Russia. I was not suggesting that females are inferior to men, just that males and females will make vastly different life choices because of psycho-evolution. It's a scientific fact that while male and female median IQ is the same, men have much more variability (more men at the extremes). Just think about your reproductive strategy(not necessarily in the modern monogamous society)-- you have bilions upon billions of sperm replenished every day while females produce one egg per month. A smarter/fitter man can produce much more offsprings than a smarter/fitter female. That has got to produce some profound differences in the way men and women behave.
- laughingman2 10y ago
  Anecdotal evidence means shit, of course there is biological difference between men and women. The point is you making arbitrary claims using it without evidence is stupid. Centuries ago there were no women scientists, now there are, so does that mean the people like you in the transitory period claiming "Women can never be scientists due to psycho-evolution (whatever bullshit that is)" are right. Without scientific evidence, your psycho-evolutionary boundary on what is achievable by men or women is just convenient excuse for sexism because it changes and is arbitary.
  - raducu 10y ago
    That's a straw man, I never said either sex should or shouldn't be a scientist or whatever they choose to be. What I AM saying is maybe, just maybe there's no conspiracy against women and that women and men make different life an career choices which can simply be explained by bullshit psycho-evolution.
beaconstudios 10y ago
I don't see the parent comment saying anything about either race, or inferiority. Just proclivity to want to do something. Maybe chill out a bit on the accusatory kneejerk reaction, this is meant to be a forum for civil discussion.
- bigtimeidiot 10y ago
  >Maybe chill out a bit on the accusatory kneejerk reaction, this is meant to be a forum for civil discussion. Without fail, during any discussion about tech and gender on these boards, "nice guys" come out of the woodwork as staunch advocates of equality in the workplace, their message couched in accusatory and bullying language. I'll bet they're closer to being part of the problem with the industry, rather than the solution.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    I know the type you mean, and I agree. However, that's not what the previous commenter was doing. I don't think it's sexist to suggest that on average, men and women may have different interests - whatever you think it's caused by, it's observable from reality. If they had said that women aren't as capable as men at programming I'd be right there with you, but kneejerk accusations of sexism do nothing but stifle debate and make people feel attacked. At least determine whether what the person said was indeed sexist before launching into attacking them.
    - beaconstudios 10y ago
      [if I could edit, I would] I later realised you were referring to laughingman2 as being the niceguy. Yeah, totally agree.

gkya 10y ago

Maybe it's just because most men don't want to do feminine jobs and most women don't want to do masculine jobs. We're all social human beings at the end of the day, and we want to be cool, attractive individuals, and most of us care about others' eyes on us.

thriftwy 10y ago

There are a lot of female young (and not-so-young too!) scientists in Russia today. The pay is not great and a lot of hoops to jump, but the hours are usually flexible. Maybe some women don't feel pressure to be breadwinners, so they can choose a career in science, but men feel that they have to make more money than science ever promises in Russia.