6 ms·
But if some make it to med school but then don't succeed, how many of those failure cases ended up not working hard enough? Once you have a class of medical st
by crusso 10y ago
But if some make it to med school but then don't succeed, how many of those failure cases ended up not working hard enough?
Once you have a class of medical students, it's not a lottery system on who succeeds. Short of those who, through no fault of their own, run out of money or have some unfortunate circumstance that takes them out of the program - the ones who succeed seem very likely to have made it on merit of some combination of hard work and intelligence.
- aristus 10y agoYou'd be surprised. There are several pressures that keep doctor supply low in the US, not least the medical boards staffed by doctors who ahem have obvious moral hazard to constrain supply and maintain their 400k/year income. A close friend of mine is now a cardiologist. As far as I can tell his residency was a three-year hazing ritual / sleep-dep experiment. To top it off, when he was finally done and out in San Francisco visiting us, he got the call to take some final test. The test had to be done the next day and had to be done in person at one of six cities in the country, the closest one being in LA. We scrambled to get him a plane ticket and some sleep. He passed, but excuse me what the actual fuck? That's not character-building. That's straight up institutionalized caprice.
- crusso 10y agoI don't disagree that the AMA's stranglehold on MD distribution is a problem. But I have several members of my family who are/were doctors. Residency is hard, pure and simple. It's hard for everyone and takes tremendous perseverance. But perseverance is the opposite of luck.
- maxerickson 10y agoSo how much of it is beneficial or even necessary? (obviously the training and education received is both of those things; I'm talking about the method)
- crusso 10y agoI don't know what the perfect method is or if there is even a perfect method performable by all instructors and applicable to all medical students. I do know in my personal life that the "trial by fire" method of education makes a huge impression and can be very successful. The military uses this method as well to great historical success.
- falcolas 10y agoAnd there it is: They failed because they "didn't work hard enough." It's really easy to classify failures as not working hard enough, and successful people as having worked hard enough. But what's hard enough? Can we quantify by any means other than the outcome? We can point to people who have never worked on their business for more than 40 hours a week and their business has succeeded. We can point to people who have put more than 120 hours a week into their business who have failed. Who really worked harder?
- pacaro 10y agoAt which point this turns into a "No true Scotsman" fallacy
- crusso 10y agoThe NTS fallacy is based upon goalpost moving with no clear metric for success. Graduating medical school is definably not goalpost moving.
- pacaro 10y agoMy observation was that introducing the "didn't work hard enough" element _is_ moving the goalposts.
- crusso 10y agoYou misunderstand the "No True Scotsman" fallacy to apply it to this situation. There's a metric for success (graduating), and no one claimed that the only possible way that someone didn't make it is "work harder". I said that perhaps that's the reason since by the time people make it to medical school, they're on a fairly even playing field. NTS is typically applicable when someone expresses a goal like "being a good Christian" and then continues to redefine what that means, never admitting that some are good Christians because of endless redefinitions of the metrics.
- crusso 10y ago
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]