3 ms·

The core of the problem to me, seems to be the absence of a widely supported declarative low level 2D vector format to compile to, likely with closed arced path

• taeric 10y ago
  How does Postscript not capture the "widely supported low level format?" No, I assert that the problem is there is just not a need for serializing vector graphics across the wire for the vast majority of people. Or of authoring graphics in said fashion. Combined with the people best at creating graphics typically best at doing so using a visual toolchain. Which lends itself to the standard toolchain of Photoshop (or whatever application) and just generally does not need to be programmed or to have "clean" output. Indeed, most graphics are best created at the target resolution that they are needed and using tools that are more akin to the metaphor of painting. See the popularity of the Surface with artists. Now, try to make a program that you interact with using paint brushes, but outputs "clean" vector commands. If you succeed at that, you will be deserving of whatever computing awards you can get.
  • colanderman 10y ago
    > there is just not a need for […] authoring graphics in said fashion You say that like Adobe Illustrator has existed without reason for 30 years.
    • taeric 10y ago
      Illustrator is a graphical editing tool. It outputs vector graphics, but it is not an authoring tool for the vector representation. At least, not in the way that requires knowing the spec. Which is my point. Few people that are using Illustrator know anything about SVG. I think you just misunderstood my sentence, so I apologize if that is the case. By "authoring graphics in said fashion", what I mean is authoring using text. Directly specifying the vector primitives, which is what SVG is ultimately for. Is there a better way of saying that?
      • colanderman 10y ago
        I agree that, for the end-user, a low-level format like PostScript is perfect. No need to preserve structure. But tools like Illustrator need to preserve some structure. Otherwise it becomes very difficult to make edits. (Imagine reflowing text in a PostScript file – next to impossible!) Even Photoshop preserves lots of structure these days, so you can perform non-destructive edits. SVG's other use case is interactive animations. You could equally use Canvas for this, but it's nice to be able to import resources directly from e.g. Inkscape, and manipulate them using the DOM. Easier to build an animation authoring tool around structured SVG than unstructured PostScript or Canvas.
        • jononor 10y ago
          The interactive diagrams is my main (only?) use for SVG. Technically I could write code for everything, but just being able to draw it out in Inkscape is a superior experience.
  • gilgoomesh 10y ago
    Postscript is higher level than SVG. Postscript is a full imperative programming language for describing pages. SVG was designed (originally by Adobe) to be a lightweight, declarative, XML version of Postscript.
    • DonHopkins 10y ago
      With JavaScript nailed onto the side. Remember when Adobe was promoting SVG as a superior alternative to Flash? (Before they bought Macromedia of course. Then it was the red-headed bastard stepchild sitting out on the back porch in the rain.)
  • mxfh 10y ago
    Meaning ever seen PostScript rendered somewhere natively in a browser? In the DTP world, the problem does indeed not exist in that way. most graphics are best created at the target resolution This paradigm seems to become obsolete to me. With the present adoption rate of HiDPI displays target ratios matter again, not pixels. Basically were back with displays to the paradigms that print/layout had for centuries and which where tackled in the digital realm before with the first transition from low resolution raster to high resolution print in the mid-70s to 80s with the inception of PostScript and Illustrator (the original core of Adobe, John Warnock) and also MetaFont by Knuth. We're currently in the middle of another transition, now happening on-screen with the transition to non-pixel based authoring for HiDPI displays. Pixels as authoring targets will probably be seen as a transitional technology/paradigm in a decade or less, placed neatly between paper and true vector displays on one end and Retina+ type screens on the other recent end of an interval spanning only one or two generations in retrospect. In general things have improved a lot in the last 5 years, SVG is also simply good enough for most things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6470908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6470908
    • taeric 10y ago
      I wasn't saying pixel level creation. I just said target resolution creation. In general, you design the screen you want. Using tools that let you draw, with the constraint that it is at the resolution you desire. Am I saying that vector graphics are not desirable? No. Just saying that that is a by product of the tool. If you are making something that can scale up perfectly, great. Most graphics don't. Pretty much period.