5 ms·

I find Pico Iyer's writing insufferable and this is a good example why: how, exactly, do random interactions with the Japanese equivalent of a spoiled trust-fun

I find Pico Iyer's writing insufferable and this is a good example why: how, exactly, do random interactions with the Japanese equivalent of a spoiled trust-fund kid who can afford to spend his life noodling about with haiku and abstract painting show the "living heart of traditional Japan"? Then again, given that Iyer can't read Japanese despite living there for several decades and he seems to take perverse pride in being illiterate [1], he's not going have a lot of other local sources for insight... [1] http://m.dailygood.org/story/1092/the-art-of-stillness-pico-iyer/ http://m.dailygood.org/story/1092/the-art-of-stillness-pico-...

cloakandswagger 10y ago
The first thing that struck me about this story was the absolutely terrible writing: >An elegant middle-aged man, in a spotless black jacket, came up to me, hand extended, to say hello, and I was startled. My neighbours in Japan tend to be formal and reticent; few of them are eager to take the initiative. And we were simply standing around an art gallery on Kitayama Street in northern Kyoto, 20 years ago, where a handful of us had gathered to see an exhibition of a friend’s pen-and-ink drawings. This paragraph is awful from a purely grammatical perspective. The second thing that becomes apparent is a definable arrogance and pretentiousness from the author. As you said, the "essence of Japan" isn't a trust fund baby selling his poems. If anything it is getting hired on at a zaibatsu, working yourself to death, living alone in a tiny apartment and developing alcoholism by age 30. This image isn't as fantastical as the one Pico presents though.
- pharrlax 10y ago
  >This paragraph is awful from a purely grammatical perspective. Poor grammar doesn't necessarily mean poor writing. See: Cormac McCarthy
  - tps5 10y ago
    Agreed: the writing is poor for reasons unrelated to grammar.
- toyg 10y ago
  > getting hired on at a zaibatsu, working yourself to death, living alone To be fair, I think the tradition the writer is supposedly referencing comes from a time before concepts like zaibatsu and sarariman even existed. I do agree the article is pretentious though. The "gentleman" seems like the japanese version of a hippy boomer, and would have been thoroughly despised by his own ancestors.
- nihonde 10y ago
  Japan is a very complex place, which is why it's so annoying when people like Iyer reduce it to window dressing, or when you reduce it to some dystopian Japan Times 過労死 click bait headline. Edit: In case my point wasn't clear, I'm saying that it's better to taste the tea, and useless to talk about it.
  - micaksica 10y ago
    > I'm saying that it's better to taste the tea, and useless to talk about it. Yes, it is better to taste the tea, but useless to talk about it? That's a bit strong, IMO. It is futile to reduce a culture to cliches, sure, but there is always something to be learned from the discussion thereof - in fact, even this shitty article has raised the point that "Japan is more than just this cliche, so ignore this hack."
- philliphaydon 10y ago
  I read it twice because I was convinced I didn't understand it. I was right. I didn't understand it... but I also still don't understand it. I don't know why this is on the front page of HN...
  - executesorder66 10y ago
    > I don't know why this is on the front page of HN Because people see "Japan" and upvote before they even open the link.
wetha 10y ago
Thank you for [1], I found the transcribed interview wonderful. However, I did not read his words as taking "perverse pride in being illiterate" but rather more of being happy with his current situation and not wanting to change it. A few gems from the transcript - "And as you know, the Dalai Lama, in response to the global times that you and I have been discussing, when he comes to this country, will always tell people, “Please don't become a Buddhist. Stay within your own traditions where your roots are deepest. You can learn some things from Buddhists, Buddhists can learn something from you. But don't too hastily abandon the centuries of tradition sent down you and grab something you don't perhaps imperfectly understand. And I think he brings us back to that wonderful truth, which is also maybe a feature of this age, which is that when a Buddhist and a Christian have a really deep conversation, the Buddhist becomes a better Buddhist the Christian becomes a better Christian." While I don't agree with the Dalai Lama's argument on staying within one's own traditions, a world where talking about religion is not taboo, and deep and respectful conversations between people of different faiths is encouraged, would be so much better than what we have today. "I wondered if, what if spirituality is water, and religion is the cup, you know, which carries it forward, although it may be flawed, and we may drop it and break it" "...is that my education had taught me quite well to talk, but I don't think it had taught me to listen. And my schools had taught me quite well to sort of push myself forward in the world, but it never taught me to erase myself. And the virtues of when I got to Japan, finding that I was essentially an illiterate. I can't read — I can't — to this day, I can't read or write Japanese. And I'm at the mercy of things around me. I can't have the illusion that I'm on top of things."
Evgeny 10y ago
I thought I have a severe case of deja vu, but actually I have seen it before - this guy was discussed previously! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10840203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10840203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10848086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10848086
gone35 10y ago
IMO, in word2vec terms: Pico Iyer = Thomas Friedman + Deepak Chopra. (I bet it actually is the case.)
joyofdata 10y ago
This guy is so full of himself - almost disgusting how he tries so hard to come across as a humble and reflecting person.

cloakandswagger 10y ago

The first thing that struck me about this story was the absolutely terrible writing: >An elegant middle-aged man, in a spotless black jacket, came up to me, hand extended, to say hello, and I was startled. My neighbours in Japan tend to be formal and reticent; few of them are eager to take the initiative. And we were simply standing around an art gallery on Kitayama Street in northern Kyoto, 20 years ago, where a handful of us had gathered to see an exhibition of a friend’s pen-and-ink drawings. This paragraph is awful from a purely grammatical perspective. The second thing that becomes apparent is a definable arrogance and pretentiousness from the author. As you said, the "essence of Japan" isn't a trust fund baby selling his poems. If anything it is getting hired on at a zaibatsu, working yourself to death, living alone in a tiny apartment and developing alcoholism by age 30. This image isn't as fantastical as the one Pico presents though.

pharrlax 10y ago
>This paragraph is awful from a purely grammatical perspective. Poor grammar doesn't necessarily mean poor writing. See: Cormac McCarthy
- tps5 10y ago
  Agreed: the writing is poor for reasons unrelated to grammar.
toyg 10y ago
> getting hired on at a zaibatsu, working yourself to death, living alone To be fair, I think the tradition the writer is supposedly referencing comes from a time before concepts like zaibatsu and sarariman even existed. I do agree the article is pretentious though. The "gentleman" seems like the japanese version of a hippy boomer, and would have been thoroughly despised by his own ancestors.
nihonde 10y ago
Japan is a very complex place, which is why it's so annoying when people like Iyer reduce it to window dressing, or when you reduce it to some dystopian Japan Times 過労死 click bait headline. Edit: In case my point wasn't clear, I'm saying that it's better to taste the tea, and useless to talk about it.
- micaksica 10y ago
  > I'm saying that it's better to taste the tea, and useless to talk about it. Yes, it is better to taste the tea, but useless to talk about it? That's a bit strong, IMO. It is futile to reduce a culture to cliches, sure, but there is always something to be learned from the discussion thereof - in fact, even this shitty article has raised the point that "Japan is more than just this cliche, so ignore this hack."
philliphaydon 10y ago
I read it twice because I was convinced I didn't understand it. I was right. I didn't understand it... but I also still don't understand it. I don't know why this is on the front page of HN...
- executesorder66 10y ago
  > I don't know why this is on the front page of HN Because people see "Japan" and upvote before they even open the link.

wetha 10y ago

Thank you for [1], I found the transcribed interview wonderful. However, I did not read his words as taking "perverse pride in being illiterate" but rather more of being happy with his current situation and not wanting to change it. A few gems from the transcript - "And as you know, the Dalai Lama, in response to the global times that you and I have been discussing, when he comes to this country, will always tell people, “Please don't become a Buddhist. Stay within your own traditions where your roots are deepest. You can learn some things from Buddhists, Buddhists can learn something from you. But don't too hastily abandon the centuries of tradition sent down you and grab something you don't perhaps imperfectly understand. And I think he brings us back to that wonderful truth, which is also maybe a feature of this age, which is that when a Buddhist and a Christian have a really deep conversation, the Buddhist becomes a better Buddhist the Christian becomes a better Christian." While I don't agree with the Dalai Lama's argument on staying within one's own traditions, a world where talking about religion is not taboo, and deep and respectful conversations between people of different faiths is encouraged, would be so much better than what we have today. "I wondered if, what if spirituality is water, and religion is the cup, you know, which carries it forward, although it may be flawed, and we may drop it and break it" "...is that my education had taught me quite well to talk, but I don't think it had taught me to listen. And my schools had taught me quite well to sort of push myself forward in the world, but it never taught me to erase myself. And the virtues of when I got to Japan, finding that I was essentially an illiterate. I can't read — I can't — to this day, I can't read or write Japanese. And I'm at the mercy of things around me. I can't have the illusion that I'm on top of things."

Evgeny 10y ago

I thought I have a severe case of deja vu, but actually I have seen it before - this guy was discussed previously! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10840203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10840203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10848086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10848086

gone35 10y ago

IMO, in word2vec terms: Pico Iyer = Thomas Friedman + Deepak Chopra. (I bet it actually is the case.)

joyofdata 10y ago

This guy is so full of himself - almost disgusting how he tries so hard to come across as a humble and reflecting person.