3 ms·

What bothers me about these articles is that they lay out all these reasons for why a place will be great, or is a great place to start a company, but then why

What bothers me about these articles is that they lay out all these reasons for why a place will be great, or is a great place to start a company, but then why -- in spite of these assets -- does that place not produce like Silicon Valley? I am not saying Toronto is not a great city to live and work and start a business. But if it has all these things going for it, why isn't it producing startup value per capita like SV? Doesn't this show that these things are not enough for a startup scene? Or, to put it another way, having startups is not essential for a great city.

deleted 9y ago
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52-6F-62 9y ago
I think there are a number of factors here, and I don't think social factors should be ruled out. There are a number of startups here, but there are also many community/social innovation hubs[1] and organizations that draw in a lot of people who come here to start something up. The number of jobs I have seen posted for the "Next Flipp!" the "Next Uber!!!" is outstanding. How many flyer-aggregate apps do people really need? There's an odd lack of creative capital in business for a city that prides itself on the arts. I think some of that is due to social pressures. Many in the arts here, at least the people who would need the money, seem to think earning any real money is evil unless you earned your $10.50 an hour working on the line in a diner kitchen. As if a financially successful business is inherently a corrupt business. Other organizations like Enterprise Toronto[2] seem like great ideas to bolster people in theory, but (speaking only from my experience) it seems to attract people who want to only run their quaint one-man dev-designer gig with enough money to do what they want, and all the free time to do it. Sounds kind of nice, but the city is flooded with people who have the same dream. (Maybe there's more space for it these days, and maybe I should get in on it). Your last paragraph raises very good questions, and the answers are probably too many: the best talent goes to California/New York/Boston(/Waterloo?), or otherwise the best talent here doesn't get into business but stays in academics. Some of the highest capital here seems to be made through selling to American companies.[3] Then of course the social factors I mentioned: it might just be that the dream is a little different for a lot of people who come here. They didn't necessarily come to strike it big with a company, but more for the culture of the place. Like you put it: having startups is not essential for a great city. [1] https://socialinnovation.org/ https://socialinnovation.org/ [2] http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=032354ae91cda510VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=0323... [3] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-is-canadian-media-ignoring-the-100m-sale-of-a-toronto-startup-bitstrips-snapchat-bitmoji https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-is-canadian-m... edit: I should add the obligatory MaRS is an awesome resource comment. https://www.marsdd.com/ https://www.marsdd.com/
- tensor 9y ago
  Actually, MaRS has been not at all useful in my experience. Additionally, Toronto is home to a lot of great startups, though many are a bit smaller than the giants, but some are giants. Shopify and 500px are good examples. Smaller examples are AgileBits who make 1password and PagerDuty. There are more too, in enterprise, legal, you won't have heard of these as the aren't consumer facing.
  - 52-6F-62 9y ago
    MaRS seems to be much bigger in science and medical startups, and unless you look for what they've been supporting it's like you mentioned most won't have heard of them because they aren't consumer facing. I think I mentioned elsewhere -- Shopify and 500px (I've applied there and failed lol) are some of the unicorns here. Good companies with good products and good talent. I'll have to check out AgileBits. I work for a company that sometimes deals with other smaller startups but they can be fleeting in lifespan. I would love to find something viable to join in on vs. the enterprise environment I find myself in now. Though I honestly haven't had my ear to the ground as much lately.
tensor 9y ago
You are assuming there is no political influence here. Unfortunately there it's a major component and it mostly comes from the investors who are currently primarily US based. First they will tell you it's impossible to succeed without them. Very aggressively so. Then, if you sign on, they will tell you that you can't succeed unless you move to Silicon Valley. They'll connect you with dozens of experienced people all chanting the same mantra. Eventually most people succumb to it. But it not scientific. It's not "proof" of any sort. It's simply a very well funded agenda to keep Silicon Valley as the king of innovation. I don't blame them, it's a good strategy, but it's also one very rarely discussed or even recognized.

deleted 9y ago

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deleted 9y ago

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52-6F-62 9y ago

I think there are a number of factors here, and I don't think social factors should be ruled out. There are a number of startups here, but there are also many community/social innovation hubs[1] and organizations that draw in a lot of people who come here to start something up. The number of jobs I have seen posted for the "Next Flipp!" the "Next Uber!!!" is outstanding. How many flyer-aggregate apps do people really need? There's an odd lack of creative capital in business for a city that prides itself on the arts. I think some of that is due to social pressures. Many in the arts here, at least the people who would need the money, seem to think earning any real money is evil unless you earned your $10.50 an hour working on the line in a diner kitchen. As if a financially successful business is inherently a corrupt business. Other organizations like Enterprise Toronto[2] seem like great ideas to bolster people in theory, but (speaking only from my experience) it seems to attract people who want to only run their quaint one-man dev-designer gig with enough money to do what they want, and all the free time to do it. Sounds kind of nice, but the city is flooded with people who have the same dream. (Maybe there's more space for it these days, and maybe I should get in on it). Your last paragraph raises very good questions, and the answers are probably too many: the best talent goes to California/New York/Boston(/Waterloo?), or otherwise the best talent here doesn't get into business but stays in academics. Some of the highest capital here seems to be made through selling to American companies.[3] Then of course the social factors I mentioned: it might just be that the dream is a little different for a lot of people who come here. They didn't necessarily come to strike it big with a company, but more for the culture of the place. Like you put it: having startups is not essential for a great city. [1] https://socialinnovation.org/ https://socialinnovation.org/ [2] http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=032354ae91cda510VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=0323... [3] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-is-canadian-media-ignoring-the-100m-sale-of-a-toronto-startup-bitstrips-snapchat-bitmoji https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-is-canadian-m... edit: I should add the obligatory MaRS is an awesome resource comment. https://www.marsdd.com/ https://www.marsdd.com/

tensor 9y ago
Actually, MaRS has been not at all useful in my experience. Additionally, Toronto is home to a lot of great startups, though many are a bit smaller than the giants, but some are giants. Shopify and 500px are good examples. Smaller examples are AgileBits who make 1password and PagerDuty. There are more too, in enterprise, legal, you won't have heard of these as the aren't consumer facing.
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  MaRS seems to be much bigger in science and medical startups, and unless you look for what they've been supporting it's like you mentioned most won't have heard of them because they aren't consumer facing. I think I mentioned elsewhere -- Shopify and 500px (I've applied there and failed lol) are some of the unicorns here. Good companies with good products and good talent. I'll have to check out AgileBits. I work for a company that sometimes deals with other smaller startups but they can be fleeting in lifespan. I would love to find something viable to join in on vs. the enterprise environment I find myself in now. Though I honestly haven't had my ear to the ground as much lately.

tensor 9y ago

You are assuming there is no political influence here. Unfortunately there it's a major component and it mostly comes from the investors who are currently primarily US based. First they will tell you it's impossible to succeed without them. Very aggressively so. Then, if you sign on, they will tell you that you can't succeed unless you move to Silicon Valley. They'll connect you with dozens of experienced people all chanting the same mantra. Eventually most people succumb to it. But it not scientific. It's not "proof" of any sort. It's simply a very well funded agenda to keep Silicon Valley as the king of innovation. I don't blame them, it's a good strategy, but it's also one very rarely discussed or even recognized.