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> The solution is to make everyone fully aware of the rules. Unfortunately, "everyone just do a better job" is generally a failing strategy. This is also the
by dpark 10y ago
> The solution is to make everyone fully aware of the rules.
Unfortunately, "everyone just do a better job" is generally a failing strategy. This is also the problem with getting drivers to do a better job. They just won't, at least not without a lot of effort.
> Again cyclists take the blame for all of the problems, while still not being provided with any solutions....
That's because cyclists are the problem. All the things you describe about pedestrians apply only because bikes showed up on sidewalks. Pedestrians weaving side to side and wearing headphones are only safety issues if fast-moving vehicles are sharing the path. It's not that pedestrians are immune from fault. Pedestrians who wander into traffic randomly are considered at fault. But they aren't at fault for acting like pedestrians on a pedestrian path. We don't put cars and pedestrians onto shared paths and then expect pedestrians to walk in perfectly straight lines to allow cars zip past them at 20mph.
And there is a solution for cycling, which is to make roads safer for cyclists. There are lots of ways to do that. There isn't a lack of ability, but a lack of will and funding.
> The problem with putting in separate bike paths is now we have three different road systems sharing the space, which in cities is often limited and in rural areas is economically unfeasible to maintain. And it still doesn't solve the problem of cross streets, which both pedestrians and cyclists suffer from at the hands of motorists.
Yeah, it's tough to share the space efficiently. Dumping the problem on pedestrians doesn't fix it, though.
Pedestrians also don't have as much of a cross-street problem as cyclists. This is a place where pedestrians tend to pay attention and cars tend to look for them. Cyclists have a much bigger problem because 1) cars aren't looking for fast-moving vehicles on the sidewalk half a block away, 2) cyclists can't stop at a moment's notice when they realize the car isn't going to stop.
> Maybe the answer is to draw a line down the sidewalk to indicate to pedestrians and cyclists that they need to stay to the right (or left depending on country) so faster modes of transport can safely pass.
This doesn't generally work. Pedestrians will cross the line whenever it's convenient to do so, or if they're not paying attention, or whatever. You could maybe make it work by making it extremely wide, but then you might as well have separate paths and physical barrier between them.
> Maybe we should enforce a speed limit on bikes in certain areas.
Good luck with that. Most bikes don't have speedometers and in any event, the safe speed on a shared path is far slower than most cyclists want to travel, namely jogging speed.
> But all of the problems pedestrians face at the hands of cyclists, cyclists face against motor vehicles, but the danger is far greater. Getting hit at 45mph while you're riding at 10mph is a lot different than being hit while walking by a bike going 10mph.
That doesn't mean that dumping the problem on pedestrians is a good tradeoff. Not only do mixed-use paths put pedestrians at higher risk, they still put cyclists at risk (possibly worse risk, due to the intersection problem), and they frustrate both cyclists and pedestrians. It's not a good solution for anyone except leisurely cyclists who can frankly cycle on sidewalks today and it's fine.
Also, bikes are often going faster than 10mph.
- freehunter 10y agoAll of those problems are currently faced by bikes versus cars. Massive speed differences, unpredictability in their movement patterns, people not operating according to common sense or the law. Cars often cross their center line too, so you can't argue that pedestrians crossing the center line is a novel concept. Again I'm not saying that bikes on sidewalks is a good idea. But it's a hell of a lot better of an idea than bikes on roads. You can make up a million reasons why it won't work, but all of them are overshadowed by the huge amounts of cyclists who get killed or seriously injured by motorists every year. How many cyclists need to be killed because pedestrians don't want to have to walk in a straight line?
- dpark 10y agoYou don't solve the cyclist safety problem by putting them on sidewalks. It makes pedestrians less safe and makes cyclists little or no more safe than they are now. A huge percentage of fatal accidents happen at intersections and those actually get worse when you put cyclists on sidewalks. Seattle allows bikes on sidewalks and last I checked, it didn't solve the problem. In fact, last I checked most cyclists in Seattle recommended riding in the street because it's safer. If your only solution to the problem is to blame pedestrians for not walking in straight lines then you have no practical suggestions and you're no better than the people you say just blame cyclists. Pedestrians will not suddenly become vigilant as they walk, nor should they. Sidewalks exist specifically so that pedestrians have a safe place to walk. Edit: Just for fun... > Again I'm not saying that bikes on sidewalks is a good idea. But it's a hell of a lot better of an idea than bikes on roads. You can make up a million reasons why it won't work, but all of them are overshadowed by the huge amounts of motorcyclists who get killed or seriously injured by motorists every year.
- kazinator 10y agoCyclists are less safe on sidewalks. While traversing a segment of sidewalk uninterrupted by driveways, alleys and streets, they are quite safe, of course. During those driveway, alley and street crossings, cyclists using a sidewalk are less visible to an emerging driver. Due to obstructions, the distance at which the cyclist is visible to an emerging driver is shortened; literally the cyclist appears suddenly "out of nowhere" in the path of the driver, which isn't the case if the cyclist is on the road, or not with the same abruptness. On a road, you have room to intuitively swing out and away when approaching a "blind corner": a situation where a car might emerge, where visibility is bad (tall fence, bushes, whatever). You glance over your shoulder or into your rear-view mirror, then pull out into the road more to be seen sooner if a car pops up. Cycling on a sidewalks with the same safety as on the road requires you to slow down to an almost complete stop at any driveway, alley, or street where visibility is bad; you're taking a big hit in your travel time. The surface of sidewalks is often not of the same quality as that of the road; sidewalks are not suitable for cycling at 30 km/h and above, even when you have a decent stretch of side walk to be able to do that safely. Sidewalks are often concrete slabs with gaps between them and misaligned.