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I'd like to try Kak, a friend recently told me about it. But, I'm concerned about needing to relearn common commands. For instance, I believe that they mentione

by scruple 10y ago

I'd like to try Kak, a friend recently told me about it. But, I'm concerned about needing to relearn common commands. For instance, I believe that they mentioned that in Kak the Vim equivalent to `dw` is `wd`. I've got decades of use with Vi(m) under my belt, as well, and I am not too thrilled at the idea of having to unlearn/relearn common commands.

brynedwards 10y ago
Having switched to Kak recently, I've found this painful since I sometimes SSH into machines with only vi installed and so have to switch back and forth between kak and vi; it's a real headache...and a real shame since kak's selection method is much nicer IMO
- sevensor 10y ago
  I find that I get irritated at vi / vim for not being as nice as kak, but vi is still useable. The hjkl keys still work, :w, :q! and so on are still the same. I, i, O, o, P, and p still do the same thing. Basic movement is almost the same except you don't get selection with your movements. I tend to fall back on this common subset when I'm using vi. Marks are different in kak, so I don't think to use those in vi. Same thing with ex commands. I'm more likely to use sed rather than messing around with vi's ex commands now. The thing that confuses me most since the switch is vim's visual selection mode. I used to be a really heavy user of visual selection mode (V and v), but since selection is at the core of what kak does, vim's way of doing it seems really clunky now. If I'm going to be spending more than half an hour on a machine, I'll probably end up taking a minute to build kak on it.
- IronBacon 10y ago
  If I can SSH to a remote host I can use Emacs TRAMP mode to edit files or I can mount the remote machine file system with SSHFS and change the file locally. I will never be forced to use vi! ^__^
sullyj3 10y ago
The whole point of Kak is that it's a different editing paradigm, still modal and "text editing language" based, but in subject verb order rather than verb subject order. The idea is to give you more confidence as you type your commands by visually showing what they'll be applied to, instead of having to wait to see the result if you screw up. If you're not interested in kak because of that paradigm change why are you interested in it at all?
- michaelmrose 10y ago
  I wonder if people whose language are SOV would find this configuration more natural than the vim order
flukus 10y ago
It's painful, but on the plus side it's way outside of the uncanny valley, it's not like a vim clone. In practice I found that this meant going back to vim (kak didn't work for me) easy.

by scruple 10y ago

brynedwards 10y ago

Having switched to Kak recently, I've found this painful since I sometimes SSH into machines with only vi installed and so have to switch back and forth between kak and vi; it's a real headache...and a real shame since kak's selection method is much nicer IMO

sevensor 10y ago
I find that I get irritated at vi / vim for not being as nice as kak, but vi is still useable. The hjkl keys still work, :w, :q! and so on are still the same. I, i, O, o, P, and p still do the same thing. Basic movement is almost the same except you don't get selection with your movements. I tend to fall back on this common subset when I'm using vi. Marks are different in kak, so I don't think to use those in vi. Same thing with ex commands. I'm more likely to use sed rather than messing around with vi's ex commands now. The thing that confuses me most since the switch is vim's visual selection mode. I used to be a really heavy user of visual selection mode (V and v), but since selection is at the core of what kak does, vim's way of doing it seems really clunky now. If I'm going to be spending more than half an hour on a machine, I'll probably end up taking a minute to build kak on it.
IronBacon 10y ago
If I can SSH to a remote host I can use Emacs TRAMP mode to edit files or I can mount the remote machine file system with SSHFS and change the file locally. I will never be forced to use vi! ^__^

sullyj3 10y ago

The whole point of Kak is that it's a different editing paradigm, still modal and "text editing language" based, but in subject verb order rather than verb subject order. The idea is to give you more confidence as you type your commands by visually showing what they'll be applied to, instead of having to wait to see the result if you screw up. If you're not interested in kak because of that paradigm change why are you interested in it at all?

michaelmrose 10y ago
I wonder if people whose language are SOV would find this configuration more natural than the vim order

flukus 10y ago

It's painful, but on the plus side it's way outside of the uncanny valley, it's not like a vim clone. In practice I found that this meant going back to vim (kak didn't work for me) easy.