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I used to be very pro-legalization of all drugs in my early 20s but I've shifted completely after seeing so many Fetanyl overdose cases in Vancouver as well as

I used to be very pro-legalization of all drugs in my early 20s but I've shifted completely after seeing so many Fetanyl overdose cases in Vancouver as well as now we are seeing Elephant tranquilizers make its way. Some drugs are just too damn harmful to even be consumed by it's end users. The thing about opiod is that it completely warps the human mind. Outside of managing extreme pain, it really should be banned. For those who are addicted, they should not be viewed from a legal platform but medical care that actively tries to rehabilitate them. Agreed. I can't believe some people still view drug use as criminal behavior. These are people who otherwise are out of coping resources and variety of other factor. It should be handled with medical assistance, not locking them up and creating life long criminals/addicts in the process. I think Portugal is a great demonstration of what I've illustrated - helping addicts while going after the supply and providing a publicly accessible harm reduction platform and alternative to hard drugs. Vancouver has safe injection sites but it's hard to go after the dealers as they are highly decentralized and blends right in or often protected by layers of addicts who sell to support their own high.

AQuantized 9y ago
You can be pro-legalization without being "pro-drug." In the sense that criminalizing drugs doesn't necessarily reduce usage.
- armenarmen 9y ago
  It's funny how often people conflate these. I can be pro freedom of religion but an atheist. Support of the freedom to do anything != an endorsement
- dontreact 9y ago
  Just want to point out that the article is actually in favor of decriminalizing drugs.
reefoctopus 9y ago
Prohibition is the cause of the fetanyl epidemic. As enforcement increases so does potency because smaller portions are easier to smuggle. Fentanyl is ~50x stronger than heroin which means 50x the payoff for smuggling the same quantity, but it's also much easier to misjudge the dosage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_prohibition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_prohibition Yes, opioids are terrible for the human mind and spirit, but the unintended consequences of prohibition make them that much worse.
- brilliantcode 9y ago
  While I agree that prohibition is harmful and creates huge black markets, we are no longer talking about recreational drug but an active public health crisis where people are buying literally poison that will kill them. I'm not calling for an all out sudden prohibition but to rehabilitate those already addicted while eradicating further supply of fetanyl. Heroin and fetanyl are two very different beasts. While heroin seems to have a long use life for it's addicts, fetanyl literally kills because of it's extreme potency. Carfentinil, the elephant tranquilizer is 100x stronger than fetanyl. There's no way we as a society can allow this to flow freely. It's no longer a drug but poison that absolutely kills its users.
  - reefoctopus 9y ago
    Most people dying from fentynl aren't buying it on purpose. They're heroin addicts who would gladly choose that if it were legal. >Carfentinil, the elephant tranquilizer is 100x stronger than fetanyl. There's no way we as a society can allow this to flow freely I'm glad you understand that potency is the issue, but you're advocating policy that causes potency to increase.
    - brilliantcode 9y ago
      > They're heroin addicts who would gladly choose that if it were legal. It seems more of a preference. Lot of heroin users dislike the fetanyl high and remain heroin users. > I'm glad you understand that potency is the issue, but you're advocating policy that causes potency to increase. I disagree. The policy that made sense for mild opiods, namely legalizing and regulation. However, we are dealing with an extremely harmful chemical-a tiny grain size of salt of carfentinil will kill. There's just no way this can be used recreationally and responsibly.
rexicus 9y ago
When people talk about legalizing drugs they usually mean "soft" drugs like weed/LSD/mushrooms and not opioids/benzos.
- bryanlarsen 9y ago
  IMO, legalizing hard drugs is more important than legalizing soft drugs, simply because so many people are dying from hard drugs. But legalizing hard drugs would mean that it's available via prescription, and a valid reason for getting a prescription would be "I'm addicted". The doctors responsibility would be to ensure that you know how to use the drugs safely, and ensure you're aware of the resources available to help you quit. But no moralizing, condescending lectures because that would do more harm than good.
  - brilliantcode 9y ago
    Fetanyl & Carfentanil aren't hard drugs anymore, it's literally killing people. We are no longer talking about Heroin which are the classic hard drugs. I'm trying to argue for a clear distinction between those two groups.
openasocket 9y ago
There's a really nice middle ground. In Portugal drugs are legal to possess but illegal to sell/distribute, so you can still go after the dealers and suppliers but not the addicts who are suffering. And they provide easy access to methadone, clean needles. There are places where they can shoot up with nurses to supervise for ODs, testing kits so addicts can verify their supply hasn't been cut with something nasty or unexpected. I'm not exactly pro-drug, but I think this approach is probably the best possible way to address the crisis and reduce usage in the long term.

AQuantized 9y ago

You can be pro-legalization without being "pro-drug." In the sense that criminalizing drugs doesn't necessarily reduce usage.

armenarmen 9y ago
It's funny how often people conflate these. I can be pro freedom of religion but an atheist. Support of the freedom to do anything != an endorsement
dontreact 9y ago
Just want to point out that the article is actually in favor of decriminalizing drugs.

reefoctopus 9y ago

Prohibition is the cause of the fetanyl epidemic. As enforcement increases so does potency because smaller portions are easier to smuggle. Fentanyl is ~50x stronger than heroin which means 50x the payoff for smuggling the same quantity, but it's also much easier to misjudge the dosage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_prohibition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_prohibition Yes, opioids are terrible for the human mind and spirit, but the unintended consequences of prohibition make them that much worse.

brilliantcode 9y ago
While I agree that prohibition is harmful and creates huge black markets, we are no longer talking about recreational drug but an active public health crisis where people are buying literally poison that will kill them. I'm not calling for an all out sudden prohibition but to rehabilitate those already addicted while eradicating further supply of fetanyl. Heroin and fetanyl are two very different beasts. While heroin seems to have a long use life for it's addicts, fetanyl literally kills because of it's extreme potency. Carfentinil, the elephant tranquilizer is 100x stronger than fetanyl. There's no way we as a society can allow this to flow freely. It's no longer a drug but poison that absolutely kills its users.
- reefoctopus 9y ago
  Most people dying from fentynl aren't buying it on purpose. They're heroin addicts who would gladly choose that if it were legal. >Carfentinil, the elephant tranquilizer is 100x stronger than fetanyl. There's no way we as a society can allow this to flow freely I'm glad you understand that potency is the issue, but you're advocating policy that causes potency to increase.
  - brilliantcode 9y ago
    > They're heroin addicts who would gladly choose that if it were legal. It seems more of a preference. Lot of heroin users dislike the fetanyl high and remain heroin users. > I'm glad you understand that potency is the issue, but you're advocating policy that causes potency to increase. I disagree. The policy that made sense for mild opiods, namely legalizing and regulation. However, we are dealing with an extremely harmful chemical-a tiny grain size of salt of carfentinil will kill. There's just no way this can be used recreationally and responsibly.

rexicus 9y ago

When people talk about legalizing drugs they usually mean "soft" drugs like weed/LSD/mushrooms and not opioids/benzos.

bryanlarsen 9y ago
IMO, legalizing hard drugs is more important than legalizing soft drugs, simply because so many people are dying from hard drugs. But legalizing hard drugs would mean that it's available via prescription, and a valid reason for getting a prescription would be "I'm addicted". The doctors responsibility would be to ensure that you know how to use the drugs safely, and ensure you're aware of the resources available to help you quit. But no moralizing, condescending lectures because that would do more harm than good.
- brilliantcode 9y ago
  Fetanyl & Carfentanil aren't hard drugs anymore, it's literally killing people. We are no longer talking about Heroin which are the classic hard drugs. I'm trying to argue for a clear distinction between those two groups.

openasocket 9y ago

There's a really nice middle ground. In Portugal drugs are legal to possess but illegal to sell/distribute, so you can still go after the dealers and suppliers but not the addicts who are suffering. And they provide easy access to methadone, clean needles. There are places where they can shoot up with nurses to supervise for ODs, testing kits so addicts can verify their supply hasn't been cut with something nasty or unexpected. I'm not exactly pro-drug, but I think this approach is probably the best possible way to address the crisis and reduce usage in the long term.