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Any issue with using the sidewalk as opposed to the "Bike Lane" to avoid risk of being hit by a car? Location: a commuter city, sidewalks rarely used in AM, no

Any issue with using the sidewalk as opposed to the "Bike Lane" to avoid risk of being hit by a car? Location: a commuter city, sidewalks rarely used in AM, not much usage in PM. My commute is 80% private paths, and 20% on a road in the city. I've seen a lot of cars crossing the bike lane and I've only been biking for 2 weeks.

shoguning 9y ago
Sidewalks can be dangerous too. Go slow and watch out for pedestrians, doors opening, driveways and crosswalks. I prefer to stick to the road when possible.
JBReefer 9y ago
You really shouldn't, mostly because cars that are pulling out of garages/lots/driveways don't expect you to be there, so they'll pull forward to get a view of where you should be - the street. That said, the missing component in this discussion is that there are some cities - like Tampa - that are so horrible for biking and walking that the risk of riding on the sidewalk is lower, and there aren't any pedestrians anyway.
- prodtorok 9y ago
  You were spot on, this literally just happened today: http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP
HillaryBriss 9y ago
pedestrian here. please don't ride bikes on the sidewalks. i've experienced hundreds of dangerous near collisions with high speed bicyclists as a pedestrian in Los Angeles, San Francisco and other cities. it's possible to do serious damage by colliding with a pedestrian, particularly if that person is elderly. for such a person, a fall can result in a major bone fracture -- not something easy to recover from. please keep in mind that pedestrians have no other option but sidewalks. if bicyclists use sidewalks heavily enough, they will take away everyone's ability to engage in a very low-pollution form of transportation. also, some people have no other choice but to be pedestrians, so bicyclists on sidewalks literally eliminate the primary transportation option for some members of society. finally, i'll point out that most mass transit riders are pedestrians for part of their journey. so bicyclists on sidewalks make mass transit participation more risky and thus raise its economic cost.
- freehunter 9y ago
  Very good points, but the same points apply to bikes riding on the road. As a cyclist I've experienced hundreds of near collisions with high speed cars. It's possible to do serious damage from a vehicle hitting a bike, even if they're healthy and not elderly. Bikes often have no choice but to use roads, and if cars drive dangerously around them it takes away everyone's ability to engage in a low-pollution form of transport. Bikes are in an unenviable position where they're not quite pedestrians but not quite vehicles, and there are few specific protections for them. They're often forced to ride on the road with the flow of traffic, while pedestrians are either off the side of the road facing towards traffic where they can see oncoming cars, or better yet are separated from vehicle traffic by a curb, a greenway, and have several feet of concrete to stick to. Bikes don't have any of that protection 99% of the time. Riding on the sidewalks is a very attractive proposition when the alternative is riding 15mph on a road with no shoulder surrounded by cars going 45mph. I'm not saying cyclists should ride on sidewalks as is, but I fully support making sidewalks into multi-purpose trails where they can accommodate both pedestrians and cyclists. Cyclists should not be forced onto dangerous roads.
  - dpark 9y ago
    > I fully support making sidewalks into multi-purpose trails where they can accommodate both pedestrians and cyclists Mixed use paths are only safe if the cyclists are leisurely riding. Cyclists at speed sharing a path with pedestrians are quite dangerous. Pedestrians are rarely paying attention and will wander directly in front of cyclists. Being on a "sidewalk" is also quite dangerous to cyclists if the trail ever intersects car traffic, and it will if useful for commuting. The solution is not to put cyclists on pedestrian paths but to make bike paths in the road safer. Part of this is infrastructure. Part of this is building slower roads. Much of it is culture as drivers need to do a better job of being safe with cyclists.
    - freehunter 9y ago
      The solution is to make everyone fully aware of the rules. Many often behave without regard for their own safety or the safety of those around them, even in pedestrian-on-pedestrian incidents. I've run into people in the grocery store when they stop without warning, or had to find alternate paths around them when they decide to block the entire aisle. This extends to sidewalks and MUPs too. There is a MUP near my house with a ton of foot and bike traffic, and often pedestrians take up the entire 12-foot wide path making it dangerous for cyclists to pass them. And many times when I yell that I'm passing someone on the left, they instinctively step to the left, causing me to lock up my brakes to avoid hitting them. Again cyclists take the blame for all of the problems, while still not being provided with any solutions. Pedestrians often have headphones in and can't hear bikes, but if bikers are wearing headphones they're told how dangerous it is for them. Pedestrians weave side to side making it hard to pass, but bikes are expected to keep a perfectly straight line when riding on often rough roads. Pedestrians often have almost perfect maneuverability due to their low speed and ability to step sideways out of danger, but bikes are to blame if they can't stop or jump sideways at a moment's notice. Pedestrians can often step to the grass to get our of danger, while many road bikes could suffer damage to their wheels (or rider) if they left the paved surface. The problem with putting in separate bike paths is now we have three different road systems sharing the space, which in cities is often limited and in rural areas is economically unfeasible to maintain. And it still doesn't solve the problem of cross streets, which both pedestrians and cyclists suffer from at the hands of motorists. Maybe the answer is to draw a line down the sidewalk to indicate to pedestrians and cyclists that they need to stay to the right (or left depending on country) so faster modes of transport can safely pass. Maybe we should enforce a speed limit on bikes in certain areas. But all of the problems pedestrians face at the hands of cyclists, cyclists face against motor vehicles, but the danger is far greater. Getting hit at 45mph while you're riding at 10mph is a lot different than being hit while walking by a bike going 10mph. Drivers hate bike. Pedestrians hate bikes. Competitive cyclists hate recreational bikers. Recreational bikers hate speed demon bikers. I don't know, maybe the solution is banning bicycles. Seems that would make everyone else happy, wouldn't it?
akgerber 9y ago
Sidewalks are usually dangerous because they usually a lot of intersections with driveways and cross streets, and drivers aren't looking for fast-moving vehicles there. If it's a sidewalk along, say, fenced-in land with no driveways, risks are much lower. But cross intersections at pedestrian speed. This is a pretty decent website: http://bicyclesafe.com/#crosswalk http://bicyclesafe.com/#crosswalk
- prodtorok 9y ago
  You were spot on, this literally just happened today: http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP
  - akgerber 9y ago
    Ouch! Unfortunately it looks like you cycle in the type of suburban hellscape where you need to practice Vehicular Cycling. It works, especially with aggressive eyeball-searing lights and clothing and a mirror, but it's stressful. That said, investigate what off-road trails and even parking lot/park cutoffs you can find to keep off suburban arterials for as much of the commute as you can.
tthayer 9y ago
The only time I was hit by a car while riding my bicycle is when I was riding on the sidewalk. Drivers are barely aware of pedestrians half the time, let alone one moving at 3-4x walking speed.
ssttoo 9y ago
I went to court for riding on the sidewalk. Turns out it's not legal here (US, Los Angeles)
- Ductapemaster 9y ago
  You beat me to my comment! That's a bummer you actually got a ticket for it. It's illegal where I live too, but I've never seen anyone get a ticket for it. I did have a lady yell "get on the sidewalk!" one time while I was riding down a 2 lane 1 way road. She didn't like the fact I had my own lane, which is legally what I am supposed to do. Sometimes I wish they taught the cycling rules better at the DMV...
Ductapemaster 9y ago
In addition to the other comments here, riding on the sidewalk is often illegal. I know it is in my city (CA, coastal city)
prodtorok 9y ago
Wow, so this happened on the same exact day I wrote this comment: http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP Biker wasnt in sight.

shoguning 9y ago

Sidewalks can be dangerous too. Go slow and watch out for pedestrians, doors opening, driveways and crosswalks. I prefer to stick to the road when possible.

JBReefer 9y ago

You really shouldn't, mostly because cars that are pulling out of garages/lots/driveways don't expect you to be there, so they'll pull forward to get a view of where you should be - the street. That said, the missing component in this discussion is that there are some cities - like Tampa - that are so horrible for biking and walking that the risk of riding on the sidewalk is lower, and there aren't any pedestrians anyway.

prodtorok 9y ago
You were spot on, this literally just happened today: http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP

HillaryBriss 9y ago

pedestrian here. please don't ride bikes on the sidewalks. i've experienced hundreds of dangerous near collisions with high speed bicyclists as a pedestrian in Los Angeles, San Francisco and other cities. it's possible to do serious damage by colliding with a pedestrian, particularly if that person is elderly. for such a person, a fall can result in a major bone fracture -- not something easy to recover from. please keep in mind that pedestrians have no other option but sidewalks. if bicyclists use sidewalks heavily enough, they will take away everyone's ability to engage in a very low-pollution form of transportation. also, some people have no other choice but to be pedestrians, so bicyclists on sidewalks literally eliminate the primary transportation option for some members of society. finally, i'll point out that most mass transit riders are pedestrians for part of their journey. so bicyclists on sidewalks make mass transit participation more risky and thus raise its economic cost.

freehunter 9y ago
Very good points, but the same points apply to bikes riding on the road. As a cyclist I've experienced hundreds of near collisions with high speed cars. It's possible to do serious damage from a vehicle hitting a bike, even if they're healthy and not elderly. Bikes often have no choice but to use roads, and if cars drive dangerously around them it takes away everyone's ability to engage in a low-pollution form of transport. Bikes are in an unenviable position where they're not quite pedestrians but not quite vehicles, and there are few specific protections for them. They're often forced to ride on the road with the flow of traffic, while pedestrians are either off the side of the road facing towards traffic where they can see oncoming cars, or better yet are separated from vehicle traffic by a curb, a greenway, and have several feet of concrete to stick to. Bikes don't have any of that protection 99% of the time. Riding on the sidewalks is a very attractive proposition when the alternative is riding 15mph on a road with no shoulder surrounded by cars going 45mph. I'm not saying cyclists should ride on sidewalks as is, but I fully support making sidewalks into multi-purpose trails where they can accommodate both pedestrians and cyclists. Cyclists should not be forced onto dangerous roads.
- dpark 9y ago
  > I fully support making sidewalks into multi-purpose trails where they can accommodate both pedestrians and cyclists Mixed use paths are only safe if the cyclists are leisurely riding. Cyclists at speed sharing a path with pedestrians are quite dangerous. Pedestrians are rarely paying attention and will wander directly in front of cyclists. Being on a "sidewalk" is also quite dangerous to cyclists if the trail ever intersects car traffic, and it will if useful for commuting. The solution is not to put cyclists on pedestrian paths but to make bike paths in the road safer. Part of this is infrastructure. Part of this is building slower roads. Much of it is culture as drivers need to do a better job of being safe with cyclists.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    The solution is to make everyone fully aware of the rules. Many often behave without regard for their own safety or the safety of those around them, even in pedestrian-on-pedestrian incidents. I've run into people in the grocery store when they stop without warning, or had to find alternate paths around them when they decide to block the entire aisle. This extends to sidewalks and MUPs too. There is a MUP near my house with a ton of foot and bike traffic, and often pedestrians take up the entire 12-foot wide path making it dangerous for cyclists to pass them. And many times when I yell that I'm passing someone on the left, they instinctively step to the left, causing me to lock up my brakes to avoid hitting them. Again cyclists take the blame for all of the problems, while still not being provided with any solutions. Pedestrians often have headphones in and can't hear bikes, but if bikers are wearing headphones they're told how dangerous it is for them. Pedestrians weave side to side making it hard to pass, but bikes are expected to keep a perfectly straight line when riding on often rough roads. Pedestrians often have almost perfect maneuverability due to their low speed and ability to step sideways out of danger, but bikes are to blame if they can't stop or jump sideways at a moment's notice. Pedestrians can often step to the grass to get our of danger, while many road bikes could suffer damage to their wheels (or rider) if they left the paved surface. The problem with putting in separate bike paths is now we have three different road systems sharing the space, which in cities is often limited and in rural areas is economically unfeasible to maintain. And it still doesn't solve the problem of cross streets, which both pedestrians and cyclists suffer from at the hands of motorists. Maybe the answer is to draw a line down the sidewalk to indicate to pedestrians and cyclists that they need to stay to the right (or left depending on country) so faster modes of transport can safely pass. Maybe we should enforce a speed limit on bikes in certain areas. But all of the problems pedestrians face at the hands of cyclists, cyclists face against motor vehicles, but the danger is far greater. Getting hit at 45mph while you're riding at 10mph is a lot different than being hit while walking by a bike going 10mph. Drivers hate bike. Pedestrians hate bikes. Competitive cyclists hate recreational bikers. Recreational bikers hate speed demon bikers. I don't know, maybe the solution is banning bicycles. Seems that would make everyone else happy, wouldn't it?

akgerber 9y ago

Sidewalks are usually dangerous because they usually a lot of intersections with driveways and cross streets, and drivers aren't looking for fast-moving vehicles there. If it's a sidewalk along, say, fenced-in land with no driveways, risks are much lower. But cross intersections at pedestrian speed. This is a pretty decent website: http://bicyclesafe.com/#crosswalk http://bicyclesafe.com/#crosswalk

prodtorok 9y ago
You were spot on, this literally just happened today: http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP
- akgerber 9y ago
  Ouch! Unfortunately it looks like you cycle in the type of suburban hellscape where you need to practice Vehicular Cycling. It works, especially with aggressive eyeball-searing lights and clothing and a mirror, but it's stressful. That said, investigate what off-road trails and even parking lot/park cutoffs you can find to keep off suburban arterials for as much of the commute as you can.

tthayer 9y ago

The only time I was hit by a car while riding my bicycle is when I was riding on the sidewalk. Drivers are barely aware of pedestrians half the time, let alone one moving at 3-4x walking speed.

ssttoo 9y ago

I went to court for riding on the sidewalk. Turns out it's not legal here (US, Los Angeles)

Ductapemaster 9y ago
You beat me to my comment! That's a bummer you actually got a ticket for it. It's illegal where I live too, but I've never seen anyone get a ticket for it. I did have a lady yell "get on the sidewalk!" one time while I was riding down a 2 lane 1 way road. She didn't like the fact I had my own lane, which is legally what I am supposed to do. Sometimes I wish they taught the cycling rules better at the DMV...

Ductapemaster 9y ago

In addition to the other comments here, riding on the sidewalk is often illegal. I know it is in my city (CA, coastal city)

prodtorok 9y ago

Wow, so this happened on the same exact day I wrote this comment: http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP http://imgur.com/a/2ktXP Biker wasnt in sight.