4 ms·

His points on older prestige vehicles are true. I own two older BMWs which are in good condition, well kept and maintained. Most casual observers date the car

by brc 16y ago

His points on older prestige vehicles are true. I own two older BMWs which are in good condition, well kept and maintained. Most casual observers date the cars at 4-5 years old, instead of the actual 10-12 years they are. It is helped that they aren't used for a commute so are able to be kept clean and tidy and mileage low. I have these cars because they are built to a higher standard and are a pleasure to drive and own, with more features on them than you can get on most 'ordinary' new cars. Friends think we 'have money' because of the cars, but they don't realise that both cars are probably worth less than what they have lost in depreciation in the last two years on their own cars. But I stress the major reason for owning these cars is because of the superior build quality, safety and features as compared to other cars in a similar price range.

GFischer 16y ago
Older prestige cars are great, but in my country (Uruguay) they are heavily taxed - you have to pay 2.5% of its calculated value in taxes to the local government, plus a very heavy insurance extra, and maintenance is pretty expensive as well. Maybe in the US the bigger factor in maintenance is labor rather than parts, so the difference between a better and a cheaper car is not as much? And I understand that government doesn't punish displays of wealth with heavy taxes as much.
- brc 16y ago
  What, you have to pay extra on a used car? All countries require registration (which is a tax) but to my experience, it's calculated on engine size or other economy/pollution proxy. In places like the USA, a 10 year old Merecedes is probably worth 10% of it's original purchase price, but if it has been treated well (and continues to be treated well), is probably only 50% through it's useful service life. The sweet spot is probably at about 6 years old and 60,000 miles, when most buyers would stop considering it as an option. Buying them at about that age and keeping for 5-7 years is my advice, if you know how to sort the pearls from the swine. The big cost for keeping old prestige cars on the road is a combination of parts and labour, but labour is pretty much the same for all cars (assuming you stay away from the dealer). Finding used/cheap parts and/or doing some of the work yourself is the best way. I don't ever want to live anywhere where 'displays of wealth' are punished. I'm not rich, but I have no beef with people who are.
Unosolo 16y ago
This might have been true 20 years ago, but advances in car technology during the recent decade were really fast. Newer cars accross the board have better handling, fuel economy, more creature comforts as standard. Luxuries that existed only on premium models became mainstream. In terms of safety, the standards have gone up significantly from where they were 10-12 years go. And even when an old premium car matches new run-of-the-mill vehicle in terms of safety technology, both passive and active safety features detiorate over time: body looses it's rigidy, original air bags unless replaced which is costly are much less likely to work properly after 8 years or so. Cars heavily rely on electronic and software and becoming as transient as any other gadgets. My advice: - don't buy new, 3-6 year old car is a much better value - exclude makes and models that are not routinely sold with 160K miles on a clock. - go for a used car with high freeway, motorway, autobahn mileage (ca 20K miles a year), i.e. 60K-100K overall depending on a year. They are cheap and still very reliable. - Regardless of car age, don't buy a car made during first 3 years of model production, i.e. before the first major facelift / upgrade. Cars are just like any other product and it takes about 3 years for a "service pack" to be delivered to a market. - Another benefit apart from reliability of getting a car towards the end of the model lifecycle is the number of extras you'll be getting for free as standard. - Have a clear exit strategy: sell before a major maintenance is due.
- brc 16y ago
  "And even when an old premium car matches new run-of-the-mill vehicle in terms of safety technology, both passive and active safety features detiorate over time: body looses it's rigidy, original air bags unless replaced which is costly are much less likely to work properly after 8 years or so." I disagree with this strongly. The chassis stiffness and integrity in a BMW is engineered in - try opening the window on a BMW and 'squash' the window opening. It won't budge. Try doing the same thing on a japanese or korean car - it will easily bend to your arm. Same goes for suspension systems. Many BMWs run a full-subframe aluminium carrier for the suspension systems. These are lightweight, strong and isolate road bumps and NVH from the main body. They also last a very long time, unless abused or crash damaged. None of these features are in cheaper cars even today, even if the cheaper ones are stuffed full of airbags. As for airbags - they run self-test systems each and every time the car starts up, so you can tell if they don't work. A friend of mine recently crashed a 15 year old Honda - and the airbag worked just fine. These are seriously engineered active safety systems designed to work decades after being installed - they're not like the battery in a Nintendo. Every single electronic feature in my 14 year old BMW still works like new, from the sat-nav to the mood lighting, the auto-dim mirrors to the electric memory seats. Also take body integrity - BMWs and mercedes generally use a double-sealing door seal, and a closing latch strong enough to pick up the whole car. Again, not repeating on new, cheaper models. They're also hot-dip galvanised when built at the factory, so rust is never a problem unless you have poor treatment or crash damage. I could go on all day. If you've spent serious time underneath these vehicles, the difference in engineering is night and day with built-to-a-price cheap cars. Also, take a wander around a salvage yard where some crashed vehicles are. That will salve your doubts.

by brc 16y ago

GFischer 16y ago

Older prestige cars are great, but in my country (Uruguay) they are heavily taxed - you have to pay 2.5% of its calculated value in taxes to the local government, plus a very heavy insurance extra, and maintenance is pretty expensive as well. Maybe in the US the bigger factor in maintenance is labor rather than parts, so the difference between a better and a cheaper car is not as much? And I understand that government doesn't punish displays of wealth with heavy taxes as much.

brc 16y ago
What, you have to pay extra on a used car? All countries require registration (which is a tax) but to my experience, it's calculated on engine size or other economy/pollution proxy. In places like the USA, a 10 year old Merecedes is probably worth 10% of it's original purchase price, but if it has been treated well (and continues to be treated well), is probably only 50% through it's useful service life. The sweet spot is probably at about 6 years old and 60,000 miles, when most buyers would stop considering it as an option. Buying them at about that age and keeping for 5-7 years is my advice, if you know how to sort the pearls from the swine. The big cost for keeping old prestige cars on the road is a combination of parts and labour, but labour is pretty much the same for all cars (assuming you stay away from the dealer). Finding used/cheap parts and/or doing some of the work yourself is the best way. I don't ever want to live anywhere where 'displays of wealth' are punished. I'm not rich, but I have no beef with people who are.

Unosolo 16y ago

This might have been true 20 years ago, but advances in car technology during the recent decade were really fast. Newer cars accross the board have better handling, fuel economy, more creature comforts as standard. Luxuries that existed only on premium models became mainstream. In terms of safety, the standards have gone up significantly from where they were 10-12 years go. And even when an old premium car matches new run-of-the-mill vehicle in terms of safety technology, both passive and active safety features detiorate over time: body looses it's rigidy, original air bags unless replaced which is costly are much less likely to work properly after 8 years or so. Cars heavily rely on electronic and software and becoming as transient as any other gadgets. My advice: - don't buy new, 3-6 year old car is a much better value - exclude makes and models that are not routinely sold with 160K miles on a clock. - go for a used car with high freeway, motorway, autobahn mileage (ca 20K miles a year), i.e. 60K-100K overall depending on a year. They are cheap and still very reliable. - Regardless of car age, don't buy a car made during first 3 years of model production, i.e. before the first major facelift / upgrade. Cars are just like any other product and it takes about 3 years for a "service pack" to be delivered to a market. - Another benefit apart from reliability of getting a car towards the end of the model lifecycle is the number of extras you'll be getting for free as standard. - Have a clear exit strategy: sell before a major maintenance is due.

brc 16y ago
"And even when an old premium car matches new run-of-the-mill vehicle in terms of safety technology, both passive and active safety features detiorate over time: body looses it's rigidy, original air bags unless replaced which is costly are much less likely to work properly after 8 years or so." I disagree with this strongly. The chassis stiffness and integrity in a BMW is engineered in - try opening the window on a BMW and 'squash' the window opening. It won't budge. Try doing the same thing on a japanese or korean car - it will easily bend to your arm. Same goes for suspension systems. Many BMWs run a full-subframe aluminium carrier for the suspension systems. These are lightweight, strong and isolate road bumps and NVH from the main body. They also last a very long time, unless abused or crash damaged. None of these features are in cheaper cars even today, even if the cheaper ones are stuffed full of airbags. As for airbags - they run self-test systems each and every time the car starts up, so you can tell if they don't work. A friend of mine recently crashed a 15 year old Honda - and the airbag worked just fine. These are seriously engineered active safety systems designed to work decades after being installed - they're not like the battery in a Nintendo. Every single electronic feature in my 14 year old BMW still works like new, from the sat-nav to the mood lighting, the auto-dim mirrors to the electric memory seats. Also take body integrity - BMWs and mercedes generally use a double-sealing door seal, and a closing latch strong enough to pick up the whole car. Again, not repeating on new, cheaper models. They're also hot-dip galvanised when built at the factory, so rust is never a problem unless you have poor treatment or crash damage. I could go on all day. If you've spent serious time underneath these vehicles, the difference in engineering is night and day with built-to-a-price cheap cars. Also, take a wander around a salvage yard where some crashed vehicles are. That will salve your doubts.