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> The edit/refresh cycle starts to slow IDEA and Eclipse compile your code as you write it. And with Hotswap, you don't even need to redeploy anything. They al

> The edit/refresh cycle starts to slow IDEA and Eclipse compile your code as you write it. And with Hotswap, you don't even need to redeploy anything. They also all offer REPL's that are much more sophisticated than anything Javascript has to offer. I think you haven't used a JVM language and its ecosystem in a very long time.

ars 10y ago
> And with Hotswap, you don't even need to redeploy anything. Except when you have to restart the JVM because you added a class or a whole bunch of other things that it can't hotswap in the new code.
- hota_mazi 10y ago
  Still better than any dynamically typed language (I mean any) where you always have to redeploy everything since none of these language support incremental compilation, let alone incremental reloading.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ben-schaaf 10y ago
    If I'm using a truly compiled language (eg. C++, D), which have incremental compilation, I still have to redeploy everything since 'everything' is a single executable. If I'm using an interpreted language I only have to deploy the changed source files. Git can do that for you.
- petersellers 10y ago
  It's true that the hotswap support built in to the JVM is somewhat limited, but there are tools that are more comprehensive and can hotswap new classes, methods, method signature changes, etc. (JRebel and spring-loaded are the ones that come to mind).
mattnewton 10y ago
I use Java today daily, and came from Node. It is slower to have the compile step, even on very powerful machines, dynamic types are faster to change, and there are many caveats to hot reload. The repl comment was about is about speed, not sophistication. When something happens instantly versus a tiny pause, you don't think about seeing your change immediately on save, versus batching many changes together and then testing them. This turns out to be faster for me for explorative work. Many people agree. Just trying to explain. /shrug
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  I've found myself getting much better at making testing changes in such a way they can be hotswapped, then batching them up into a change when it's necessary to do a JVM restart. Sometimes I impress myself with how long I can go with just hotswaps, kind of like a code golf, but it's absolutely the biggest time suck of a Java developer's day. Besides meetings.

ars 10y ago

> And with Hotswap, you don't even need to redeploy anything. Except when you have to restart the JVM because you added a class or a whole bunch of other things that it can't hotswap in the new code.

hota_mazi 10y ago
Still better than any dynamically typed language (I mean any) where you always have to redeploy everything since none of these language support incremental compilation, let alone incremental reloading.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ben-schaaf 10y ago
  If I'm using a truly compiled language (eg. C++, D), which have incremental compilation, I still have to redeploy everything since 'everything' is a single executable. If I'm using an interpreted language I only have to deploy the changed source files. Git can do that for you.
petersellers 10y ago
It's true that the hotswap support built in to the JVM is somewhat limited, but there are tools that are more comprehensive and can hotswap new classes, methods, method signature changes, etc. (JRebel and spring-loaded are the ones that come to mind).

mattnewton 10y ago

I use Java today daily, and came from Node. It is slower to have the compile step, even on very powerful machines, dynamic types are faster to change, and there are many caveats to hot reload. The repl comment was about is about speed, not sophistication. When something happens instantly versus a tiny pause, you don't think about seeing your change immediately on save, versus batching many changes together and then testing them. This turns out to be faster for me for explorative work. Many people agree. Just trying to explain. /shrug

manyxcxi 10y ago
I've found myself getting much better at making testing changes in such a way they can be hotswapped, then batching them up into a change when it's necessary to do a JVM restart. Sometimes I impress myself with how long I can go with just hotswaps, kind of like a code golf, but it's absolutely the biggest time suck of a Java developer's day. Besides meetings.