8 ms·

You seem to fail to understand the difference between a junior and an intermediate to senior dev and think they are interchangeable. A bunch of new people floo

You seem to fail to understand the difference between a junior and an intermediate to senior dev and think they are interchangeable. A bunch of new people flooding into the field are zero use to companies that need higher level employees to grow. And will be zero use for a number of years. I get planning for the future is good but it doesn't solve the current problem at all.

brokenmachine 10y ago
The current problem is that companies are unwilling to pay what they need to to get what they want. I understand your point about there not being enough senior devs locally, but I'm still iffy about that being true. I would accept that argument if the wages had doubled in the past few years or so, but that hasn't happened. The companies aren't trying hard enough.
- sanswork 10y ago
  So I'm guessing you have found your attempts to hire senior devs in Australia to be easy?
  - brokenmachine 10y ago
    I'm not a hirer but a lowly employee. See my recent edit. I keep an eye on the market and I haven't seen any crazy wage increases. I'm not against being convinced of the point but atm I'm just not convinced that there's no senior devs to find, at the right price. Also, how long have these visas been going on for? It's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem I guess. Because of the band-aid fix of the visas, the wages never go up and there's no extra incentive for people to become devs. edit: I can't reply any more, I guess because it's become too deep. You say I don't know the problem, but I am actually intermediate-level IT, and atm I have little incentive to move up because the wages are not commensurate with the extra responsibilities in my opinion. So I feel I do have some knowledge of the problem at least anecdotally, as I would personally be applying for those positions if I felt I would be fairly paid for the extra stress/time/responsibility.
    - sanswork 10y ago
      I've explained elsewhere why raising wages doesn't solve the problem. You are convinced there is no problem when you admittedly have no experience with the issue. You're also expecting to see changes that wouldn't fix the problem because of your lack of experience with The problem.
      - hiram112 10y ago
        What you don't seem to understand is that the visa system destroys the whole concept of supply and demand. If your business can't hire workers, you will have to raise salaries. If you can't afford the higher salaries, you don't have a viable business (at least, without the use of wage arbitrage and indentured servants). The extra supply of labor will come into the market as soon as they're receiving signals that wages are rising, working conditions good, etc. Until then, it seems like a waste of time: why study really difficult software when you will be competing with folks willing to work much more cheaply. You might have to wait a bit for this pipeline to fix itself since you purposefully broke it this past decade by using visas to game the system.
        sanswork 10y ago
        I've already responded to this claim in these comments. For what you say to be true there would need to be a large market of senior developers waiting in the wings refusing to work until wages go up. You're also assuming the growth in jobs has been steady and predictable which it hasn't a spoiler in demand runs the whole idea that we just need more juniors starting. The problem is companies can't wait so they can bring in workers who pay taxes here and contribute to the economy or they can move there jobs over seas. I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of the latter going forward.
    - sanswork 10y ago
      So you are claiming that the only thing holding you back from progressing your career is that you don't want to do more work for what you see as not enough money? If that is true you suffer from some serious short sightedness in regards to your career. AND you don't have any experience in the topic.

brokenmachine 10y ago

The current problem is that companies are unwilling to pay what they need to to get what they want. I understand your point about there not being enough senior devs locally, but I'm still iffy about that being true. I would accept that argument if the wages had doubled in the past few years or so, but that hasn't happened. The companies aren't trying hard enough.

sanswork 10y ago
So I'm guessing you have found your attempts to hire senior devs in Australia to be easy?
- brokenmachine 10y ago
  I'm not a hirer but a lowly employee. See my recent edit. I keep an eye on the market and I haven't seen any crazy wage increases. I'm not against being convinced of the point but atm I'm just not convinced that there's no senior devs to find, at the right price. Also, how long have these visas been going on for? It's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem I guess. Because of the band-aid fix of the visas, the wages never go up and there's no extra incentive for people to become devs. edit: I can't reply any more, I guess because it's become too deep. You say I don't know the problem, but I am actually intermediate-level IT, and atm I have little incentive to move up because the wages are not commensurate with the extra responsibilities in my opinion. So I feel I do have some knowledge of the problem at least anecdotally, as I would personally be applying for those positions if I felt I would be fairly paid for the extra stress/time/responsibility.
  - sanswork 10y ago
    I've explained elsewhere why raising wages doesn't solve the problem. You are convinced there is no problem when you admittedly have no experience with the issue. You're also expecting to see changes that wouldn't fix the problem because of your lack of experience with The problem.
    - hiram112 10y ago
      What you don't seem to understand is that the visa system destroys the whole concept of supply and demand. If your business can't hire workers, you will have to raise salaries. If you can't afford the higher salaries, you don't have a viable business (at least, without the use of wage arbitrage and indentured servants). The extra supply of labor will come into the market as soon as they're receiving signals that wages are rising, working conditions good, etc. Until then, it seems like a waste of time: why study really difficult software when you will be competing with folks willing to work much more cheaply. You might have to wait a bit for this pipeline to fix itself since you purposefully broke it this past decade by using visas to game the system.
      - sanswork 10y ago
        I've already responded to this claim in these comments. For what you say to be true there would need to be a large market of senior developers waiting in the wings refusing to work until wages go up. You're also assuming the growth in jobs has been steady and predictable which it hasn't a spoiler in demand runs the whole idea that we just need more juniors starting. The problem is companies can't wait so they can bring in workers who pay taxes here and contribute to the economy or they can move there jobs over seas. I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of the latter going forward.
  - sanswork 10y ago
    So you are claiming that the only thing holding you back from progressing your career is that you don't want to do more work for what you see as not enough money? If that is true you suffer from some serious short sightedness in regards to your career. AND you don't have any experience in the topic.