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My reasoning: all of the dynamically-typed languages are more or less the same on the server for CRUD apps, so I might as well use Javascript.

by danneu 9y ago

laser 9y ago
Hmmm, that hasn't been my experience: http://www.phoenixframework.org/ http://www.phoenixframework.org/
- danneu 9y ago
  I haven't used it, but it's still the same pseudocode: defmodule HelloPhoenix.UserController do def index(conn, _params) do users = HelloPhoenix.Repo.all(HelloPhoenixUser) render conn, "index.json", users: users end end For CRUD, I'm not too convinced it's much different than what you'd be doing anywhere else. For websockets, streaming, and other stuff beyond request -> database query -> response, then competing abstractions get more interesting.
pbreit 9y ago
It's interesting that JavaScript on the server has grown at the same time front & back ends have separated. Which in my experience has drastically reduced development speed.
fulafel 9y ago
I find there are really big differences between the dev experience in Python, Node, Clojure and Erlang. JS doesn't trap errors[1], so it's tedious to debug or to have confidence in correctness, and the callback hell APIs are high friction in interactive/REPL development. Node is a fine vessel for running ClojureScript though ;) [1] See eg the bit about NaNs in the article.
- danneu 9y ago
  I agree that Node once felt tangibly worse. I used Clojure for three years to avoid Node until I had to use Node at work (nobody was going to learn Clojure) and I discovered Koa when it just released. Even back in Koa 1, co/yield/function* closed the gap for me. Nowadays it's much better with ubiquitous promise usage and async/await. I miss various things about Clojure like the editor-as-a-repl development cycle, but in my opinion, they still amount to small technical differences that play second fiddle to business concerns.

My reasoning: all of the dynamically-typed languages are more or less the same on the server for CRUD apps, so I might as well use Javascript.

by danneu 9y ago

My reasoning: all of the dynamically-typed languages are more or less the same on the server for CRUD apps, so I might as well use Javascript.

laser 9y ago

Hmmm, that hasn't been my experience: http://www.phoenixframework.org/ http://www.phoenixframework.org/

danneu 9y ago
I haven't used it, but it's still the same pseudocode: defmodule HelloPhoenix.UserController do def index(conn, _params) do users = HelloPhoenix.Repo.all(HelloPhoenixUser) render conn, "index.json", users: users end end For CRUD, I'm not too convinced it's much different than what you'd be doing anywhere else. For websockets, streaming, and other stuff beyond request -> database query -> response, then competing abstractions get more interesting.

pbreit 9y ago

It's interesting that JavaScript on the server has grown at the same time front & back ends have separated. Which in my experience has drastically reduced development speed.

fulafel 9y ago

I find there are really big differences between the dev experience in Python, Node, Clojure and Erlang. JS doesn't trap errors[1], so it's tedious to debug or to have confidence in correctness, and the callback hell APIs are high friction in interactive/REPL development. Node is a fine vessel for running ClojureScript though ;) [1] See eg the bit about NaNs in the article.

danneu 9y ago
I agree that Node once felt tangibly worse. I used Clojure for three years to avoid Node until I had to use Node at work (nobody was going to learn Clojure) and I discovered Koa when it just released. Even back in Koa 1, co/yield/function* closed the gap for me. Nowadays it's much better with ubiquitous promise usage and async/await. I miss various things about Clojure like the editor-as-a-repl development cycle, but in my opinion, they still amount to small technical differences that play second fiddle to business concerns.