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The 80's and 90's saw the introduction of digital signals, computerized switching and fiber-optic cable networks (all Bell Labs inventions), which significantly

The 80's and 90's saw the introduction of digital signals, computerized switching and fiber-optic cable networks (all Bell Labs inventions), which significantly reduced the cost of landline calls in general, and in particular eliminated the additional complexity associated with providing long-distance service versus local. This was also the period in which landline started very rapidly losing market share to cell phones (also a Bell Labs invention[1]). Remember when they used to charge you a dollar per text message? Remember when they used to charge you an arm and a leg if you went over your allotted number of minutes? Remember how they still do if you go over your ration of gigabytes? Telecom has exactly the same razor/blade business model it did 10, 20 or 40 years ago. All that's changed is which services are the loss-leaders and which are the bleeding-edge, desirable features that they charge you a king's ransom for. Normal technological churn. — [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Mobile_Phone_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Mobile_Phone_System

nerfhammer 10y ago
Your thesis seemed to be that phone service was worse and more expensive due to AT&T being broken up, no? I feel that proposition is absurd and at odds with all available facts. You seem to be saying that competitive pressure has no effect on prices. I don't think that many people dropped their landlines for cell phones in the 80's, or even the 90's. I find it difficult to believe that fewer or no competitors would lead to the same or lower cell phone bills.
- smitherfield 10y ago
  > Your thesis seemed to be that phone service was worse and more expensive due to AT&T being broken up, no? I have no idea. What I can say is, relative to other countries and taking account of new technologies largely invented by pre-breakup AT&T, there's no clear improvement. > You seem to be saying that competitive pressure has no effect on prices. What competitive pressure? A national monopoly was broken up into local monopolies with hardly any more competition. In fact, our local-level cartels make things harder for new competitors than Ma Bell ever could; they have agreements (mostly enforced as part of the AT&T breakup) to share their easements and physical plant with each other as if they were all still part of the same company, but newcomers like Google Fiber have no access, and can be effectively held to ransom on a street-to-street and even building-to-building basis. > I don't think that many people dropped their landlines for cell phones in the 80's, or even the 90's. Not many people bought color TVs in the 1960s. Did their availability make black and white TVs cheaper? Hollywood movies better, or at least more spectacular? Not many people traveled by air back then, but did jet airliners make cars better and cheaper? I think the answers are obvious. > I find it difficult to believe that fewer or no competitors would lead to the same or lower cell phone bills. Maybe, maybe not. China Mobile is a monopoly but way less expensive than US providers. Europe is an oligopoly like the US but generally less expensive.
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    Not many people bought color TVs in the 1960s. Did their availability make black and white TVs cheaper? Hollywood movies better, or at least more spectacular? Not many people traveled by air back then, but did jet airliners make cars better and cheaper? I think the answers are obvious I don't think these are as obvious as you might think. Cell phone service is more akin to TV stations or other television service than the hardware used to view it. Black and white hasn't always stayed cheaper: You could buy a "normal" color television cheaper than a small black & white portable, for example. It merely changed. Hollywood doesn't always do even that bit: I find BBC's "The Hogfather" (based on a Terry Pratchett novel) to be pretty spectacular. I went through a phase of Asian horror films, spectacularly surreal. Bollywood often has some crazy stories. Making cars better is a matter of opinion. Do you have proof that airlines made cars cheaper? Because most of what I find says they've basically stayed the same price for 30 or so years. My understanding was that things like the assembly line and advances in production technology have been the main drivers for vehicle affordability in addition to things like a growing used car market.
gumby 10y ago
> ["The 80's and 90's"] was also the period in which landline started very rapidly losing market share to cell phones (also a Bell Labs invention[1]). Remember when they used to charge you a dollar per text message? Remember when they used to charge you an arm and a leg if you went over your allotted number of minutes? Funny how the more highly regulated European telecom market saw a huge and rapid adoption of mobile phones compared to the US which lagged by about 15 years. European telecom regulations also held Europe back in other ways (mainly on the wired side) so I'm not claiming the straw horse that regulations are 100% great or 100% terrible. In fact consider Minitel: everybody could get an inexpensive computer terminal in their home, buy things online, chat, look up data, have set chat etc, starting from the early 80s. Digital lines were common. Yet 25 years later it died a backwater.

nerfhammer 10y ago

Your thesis seemed to be that phone service was worse and more expensive due to AT&T being broken up, no? I feel that proposition is absurd and at odds with all available facts. You seem to be saying that competitive pressure has no effect on prices. I don't think that many people dropped their landlines for cell phones in the 80's, or even the 90's. I find it difficult to believe that fewer or no competitors would lead to the same or lower cell phone bills.

smitherfield 10y ago
> Your thesis seemed to be that phone service was worse and more expensive due to AT&T being broken up, no? I have no idea. What I can say is, relative to other countries and taking account of new technologies largely invented by pre-breakup AT&T, there's no clear improvement. > You seem to be saying that competitive pressure has no effect on prices. What competitive pressure? A national monopoly was broken up into local monopolies with hardly any more competition. In fact, our local-level cartels make things harder for new competitors than Ma Bell ever could; they have agreements (mostly enforced as part of the AT&T breakup) to share their easements and physical plant with each other as if they were all still part of the same company, but newcomers like Google Fiber have no access, and can be effectively held to ransom on a street-to-street and even building-to-building basis. > I don't think that many people dropped their landlines for cell phones in the 80's, or even the 90's. Not many people bought color TVs in the 1960s. Did their availability make black and white TVs cheaper? Hollywood movies better, or at least more spectacular? Not many people traveled by air back then, but did jet airliners make cars better and cheaper? I think the answers are obvious. > I find it difficult to believe that fewer or no competitors would lead to the same or lower cell phone bills. Maybe, maybe not. China Mobile is a monopoly but way less expensive than US providers. Europe is an oligopoly like the US but generally less expensive.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  Not many people bought color TVs in the 1960s. Did their availability make black and white TVs cheaper? Hollywood movies better, or at least more spectacular? Not many people traveled by air back then, but did jet airliners make cars better and cheaper? I think the answers are obvious I don't think these are as obvious as you might think. Cell phone service is more akin to TV stations or other television service than the hardware used to view it. Black and white hasn't always stayed cheaper: You could buy a "normal" color television cheaper than a small black & white portable, for example. It merely changed. Hollywood doesn't always do even that bit: I find BBC's "The Hogfather" (based on a Terry Pratchett novel) to be pretty spectacular. I went through a phase of Asian horror films, spectacularly surreal. Bollywood often has some crazy stories. Making cars better is a matter of opinion. Do you have proof that airlines made cars cheaper? Because most of what I find says they've basically stayed the same price for 30 or so years. My understanding was that things like the assembly line and advances in production technology have been the main drivers for vehicle affordability in addition to things like a growing used car market.

gumby 10y ago

> ["The 80's and 90's"] was also the period in which landline started very rapidly losing market share to cell phones (also a Bell Labs invention[1]). Remember when they used to charge you a dollar per text message? Remember when they used to charge you an arm and a leg if you went over your allotted number of minutes? Funny how the more highly regulated European telecom market saw a huge and rapid adoption of mobile phones compared to the US which lagged by about 15 years. European telecom regulations also held Europe back in other ways (mainly on the wired side) so I'm not claiming the straw horse that regulations are 100% great or 100% terrible. In fact consider Minitel: everybody could get an inexpensive computer terminal in their home, buy things online, chat, look up data, have set chat etc, starting from the early 80s. Digital lines were common. Yet 25 years later it died a backwater.