5 ms·

The trees that make Southern California shady and green are dying

71 points by MilnerRoute 10y ago

pvaldes 10y ago
Less money for megabombs and more money for environment? Sounds like the sensible way to me.
- ctack 10y ago
  Imagine keeping the huge defence budget, but using it to plant and irrigate massive forests.
  - afarrell 10y ago
    Sounds like the Civilian Conservation Corps, which I believe actually caused massive habitat destruction due to draining wetlands. There are diminishing returns to these sort of projects, especially if you don't want to bulldoze the houses that have been built where forests used to thrive naturally. I have high doubts that you could spend the whole DoD budget productively. Meanwhile, it would also: - Remove spending equivalent to 3.5% of US GDP, causing a recession. - Create a power vacuum that nations would war over as they rushed to fill it.
  - pvaldes 10y ago
    Americans would enjoy a better life and would have more money for spending in luxuries (Because their air conditioning bill in summer would be much smaller and winter is not so harsh with some extra wood and a chimney). More people buying things and travelling, less danger of recession (and more money for the people that sells hotel rooms, for example).
    - cardamomo 10y ago
      And the additional emissions from air conditioning, retail product manufacturing, and travel would raise CO2 levels even higher? We need to develop an ecologically aware definition of quality of living, rather than one that prioritizes extracting value for humans from a supposedly separate source of natural resources.
      - pvaldes 10y ago
        Not necessarily, because more forests equals to less CO2 in the air. Is a well known fact that trees store carbon atoms and water. Army activities on the other hand release also lots of CO2 (and much worst things like deplected Uranium) to the environment.
  - rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
    Ironically, it was the defense industry - not Hollywood - that initiated Southern California's ascention to an economic juggernaut.
- _red 10y ago
  But this "environment" is entirely artificial.
  - flexie 10y ago
    Yes, isn't it? Much of California was a barren desert before cultivated by Europeans. It's not like it used to be one big forest before the Europeans settled.
    - s0rce 10y ago
      No it wasn't, there is a big desert but much was grassland, coastal shrubs, scattered trees in the foothills and forests in the mountains.
    - castis 10y ago
      You're right that it was never a big forest, but it was never much of a barren desert either. The biome type is chaparral.
    - pvaldes 10y ago
      https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/73/62/26/736226b8437e6ce9eb1bab42e89f24d1.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/73/62/26/7362... I grant that we talk about very different ecosystems but we should not forget that both Redwood species are exclusive from this area.
      - bbctol 10y ago
        That's the cloud forests of Northern California. Southern California isn't a true desert, but the largest things you'll find are mostly scrub.
panglott 10y ago
'urban forests are suffering partly because “so many of the trees we grow don’t belong here and aren’t sustainable without plentiful supplies of imported water.” “Historic photos of the region show coastal shrubs, oaks on the foothills and sycamores along streams and rivers,” he said. “Yet, we planted way too many trees from areas that get two to three times as much rain as we do.”' What may be worrying is if these drought-stressed trees are cultivating an artificially high population of pests that will then put added stress on the sustainable population of native drought-tolerant trees.
orasis 10y ago
Broadscale keyline design would greatly improve water retention in California: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyline_design https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyline_design I've done this in areas on my property and in two years I can already see new clovers outcompeting old cactus.
- dylanz 10y ago
  Absolutely. I've help design a few desolate properties and seen amazing results with simple keyline swales. Broad scale is definitely possible with simple machinery. Help trap and absorb some rainfall and you're off to the right start.
- faitswulff 10y ago
  The article seems to center more around pests than just drought: > There will be no miraculous recovery of these urban ecosystems after the beetles are done with them. > ...If we cannot control the shot hole borer, it will kill all the sycamores in California.
debacle 10y ago
I know a few arborists. This is generally the cycle: 1. There is a tree problem. 2. Muni orders some sort of study after the problem has become unassailable. 3. Arborist performs a study, finds lack of naturalized species, lack of diversity, lack of appropriately spaced trees. 4. Muni throws their hands up in the air because money and keeps doing the wrong things.

71 points by MilnerRoute 10y ago

pvaldes 10y ago

Less money for megabombs and more money for environment? Sounds like the sensible way to me.

ctack 10y ago
Imagine keeping the huge defence budget, but using it to plant and irrigate massive forests.
- afarrell 10y ago
  Sounds like the Civilian Conservation Corps, which I believe actually caused massive habitat destruction due to draining wetlands. There are diminishing returns to these sort of projects, especially if you don't want to bulldoze the houses that have been built where forests used to thrive naturally. I have high doubts that you could spend the whole DoD budget productively. Meanwhile, it would also: - Remove spending equivalent to 3.5% of US GDP, causing a recession. - Create a power vacuum that nations would war over as they rushed to fill it.
- pvaldes 10y ago
  Americans would enjoy a better life and would have more money for spending in luxuries (Because their air conditioning bill in summer would be much smaller and winter is not so harsh with some extra wood and a chimney). More people buying things and travelling, less danger of recession (and more money for the people that sells hotel rooms, for example).
  - cardamomo 10y ago
    And the additional emissions from air conditioning, retail product manufacturing, and travel would raise CO2 levels even higher? We need to develop an ecologically aware definition of quality of living, rather than one that prioritizes extracting value for humans from a supposedly separate source of natural resources.
    - pvaldes 10y ago
      Not necessarily, because more forests equals to less CO2 in the air. Is a well known fact that trees store carbon atoms and water. Army activities on the other hand release also lots of CO2 (and much worst things like deplected Uranium) to the environment.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Ironically, it was the defense industry - not Hollywood - that initiated Southern California's ascention to an economic juggernaut.
_red 10y ago
But this "environment" is entirely artificial.
- flexie 10y ago
  Yes, isn't it? Much of California was a barren desert before cultivated by Europeans. It's not like it used to be one big forest before the Europeans settled.
  - s0rce 10y ago
    No it wasn't, there is a big desert but much was grassland, coastal shrubs, scattered trees in the foothills and forests in the mountains.
  - castis 10y ago
    You're right that it was never a big forest, but it was never much of a barren desert either. The biome type is chaparral.
  - pvaldes 10y ago
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/73/62/26/736226b8437e6ce9eb1bab42e89f24d1.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/73/62/26/7362... I grant that we talk about very different ecosystems but we should not forget that both Redwood species are exclusive from this area.
    - bbctol 10y ago
      That's the cloud forests of Northern California. Southern California isn't a true desert, but the largest things you'll find are mostly scrub.

panglott 10y ago

'urban forests are suffering partly because “so many of the trees we grow don’t belong here and aren’t sustainable without plentiful supplies of imported water.” “Historic photos of the region show coastal shrubs, oaks on the foothills and sycamores along streams and rivers,” he said. “Yet, we planted way too many trees from areas that get two to three times as much rain as we do.”' What may be worrying is if these drought-stressed trees are cultivating an artificially high population of pests that will then put added stress on the sustainable population of native drought-tolerant trees.

orasis 10y ago

Broadscale keyline design would greatly improve water retention in California: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyline_design https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyline_design I've done this in areas on my property and in two years I can already see new clovers outcompeting old cactus.

dylanz 10y ago
Absolutely. I've help design a few desolate properties and seen amazing results with simple keyline swales. Broad scale is definitely possible with simple machinery. Help trap and absorb some rainfall and you're off to the right start.
faitswulff 10y ago
The article seems to center more around pests than just drought: > There will be no miraculous recovery of these urban ecosystems after the beetles are done with them. > ...If we cannot control the shot hole borer, it will kill all the sycamores in California.

debacle 10y ago

I know a few arborists. This is generally the cycle: 1. There is a tree problem. 2. Muni orders some sort of study after the problem has become unassailable. 3. Arborist performs a study, finds lack of naturalized species, lack of diversity, lack of appropriately spaced trees. 4. Muni throws their hands up in the air because money and keeps doing the wrong things.