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There's a difference between a software engineer and a web developer. I'm assuming you build websites? Web developers don't typically deal with the sort of alg

There's a difference between a software engineer and a web developer. I'm assuming you build websites? Web developers don't typically deal with the sort of algorithmic problems that software engineers tend to deal with. You're essentially switching to a new career path, which is not a deal-breaker. Simply explain to companies that you are a senior level WEB developer, but a junior-level software engineer.

jamesmp98 10y ago
Honestly, being a web developer is dead nowadays anyway.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  >>being a web developer is dead nowadays What does that even mean?
  - jamesmp98 10y ago
    being a web developer in the sense of making websites is something that is left to marketing teams and others. You likely will not be developing a website by writing raw HTML, PHP, etc. anymore. Now web application development is very much alive, but that tends more to software development.
    - hashkb 10y ago
      When I hear "web developer" I think of a person who produces web applications. "Web designer" is the term for someone who produces WordPress sites.
      - thehardsphere 10y ago
        This highlights a very key problem that the OP may be having. Less important than whether or not he is "junior", he needs to know what to call himself in order to correctly communicate the value proposition he's offering to the potential employer's HR department. The only way to know that is to figure out what people call what he wants to do in his market. Maybe he's a "web developer", maybe he's a "software engineer", maybe he's something in between. But he should definitely A/B test terms to see whether his responses change and how.
        lj3 10y ago
        The problem is "web developer" is a junior role now. Nobody hires web developers with 10 years of experience unless they know the underlying "software engineer" stuff to go along with it. The market is flooded with bootcamp devs that are now doing what was considered 'software engineer only' territory 10 years ago. Some designers are also getting wise and realizing that HTML/CSS and javascript aren't beyond their ability to learn.
        toexitthedonut 10y ago
        I'm aware that job titles tend to be loosey-goosey in many programming jobs, aside from the largest of companies that have a big enough sample size. For instance, my title for a web marketing agency was 'associate software engineer'. It was the typical job of setting up CMS sites, customizing plugins for them, or occasionally making a very static site from scratch. I gradually got into doing more complex work like writing apps on MVC frameworks. But I think there may be indeed another career ladder I need to jump on if I want to actually do the "engineering" part correctly.
  - OJFord 10y ago
    Perhaps they're no longer web scale?
sidlls 10y ago
> Web developers don't typically deal with the sort of algorithmic problems that software engineers tend to deal with. Software Engineers rarely deal with the sort of algorithmic problems you're thinking of. Engineering isn't about the basic fundamentals of CS. It's about thinking in systems. A person developing an individual component of a system may deal with algorithmic problems, but unless they're also contributing to the architecture and design of the system as a whole they aren't doing engineering, either.
toexitthedonut 10y ago
For a while I was building only websites, but eventually took on web app projects that leveraged MVC frameworks and had to build upon in-house REST APIs that to integrate with the products. No algorithmic problems, though, you're right about that. The closest thing I can think of relating to time complexity for web dev are when N+1 queries are used unnecessarily. I fix those, and change them into single queries. For what it's worth, though, Amazon did reach out to me and I did two rounds of interviews with them. I bombed the tech on the second one. Senior level web? Heh, even in web don't even think I'm that far. I have zero professional experience with anything but PHP which is going out of demand in newer positions. On the JavaScript side I have done two React projects, all the companies I worked for had old-school JS though. Bunch of vanilla JS with jQUery strewn in, hundreds of files, no usage of Node nor modules.

jamesmp98 10y ago

Honestly, being a web developer is dead nowadays anyway.

enraged_camel 10y ago
>>being a web developer is dead nowadays What does that even mean?
- jamesmp98 10y ago
  being a web developer in the sense of making websites is something that is left to marketing teams and others. You likely will not be developing a website by writing raw HTML, PHP, etc. anymore. Now web application development is very much alive, but that tends more to software development.
  - hashkb 10y ago
    When I hear "web developer" I think of a person who produces web applications. "Web designer" is the term for someone who produces WordPress sites.
    - thehardsphere 10y ago
      This highlights a very key problem that the OP may be having. Less important than whether or not he is "junior", he needs to know what to call himself in order to correctly communicate the value proposition he's offering to the potential employer's HR department. The only way to know that is to figure out what people call what he wants to do in his market. Maybe he's a "web developer", maybe he's a "software engineer", maybe he's something in between. But he should definitely A/B test terms to see whether his responses change and how.
      - lj3 10y ago
        The problem is "web developer" is a junior role now. Nobody hires web developers with 10 years of experience unless they know the underlying "software engineer" stuff to go along with it. The market is flooded with bootcamp devs that are now doing what was considered 'software engineer only' territory 10 years ago. Some designers are also getting wise and realizing that HTML/CSS and javascript aren't beyond their ability to learn.
      - toexitthedonut 10y ago
        I'm aware that job titles tend to be loosey-goosey in many programming jobs, aside from the largest of companies that have a big enough sample size. For instance, my title for a web marketing agency was 'associate software engineer'. It was the typical job of setting up CMS sites, customizing plugins for them, or occasionally making a very static site from scratch. I gradually got into doing more complex work like writing apps on MVC frameworks. But I think there may be indeed another career ladder I need to jump on if I want to actually do the "engineering" part correctly.
- OJFord 10y ago
  Perhaps they're no longer web scale?

sidlls 10y ago

> Web developers don't typically deal with the sort of algorithmic problems that software engineers tend to deal with. Software Engineers rarely deal with the sort of algorithmic problems you're thinking of. Engineering isn't about the basic fundamentals of CS. It's about thinking in systems. A person developing an individual component of a system may deal with algorithmic problems, but unless they're also contributing to the architecture and design of the system as a whole they aren't doing engineering, either.

toexitthedonut 10y ago

For a while I was building only websites, but eventually took on web app projects that leveraged MVC frameworks and had to build upon in-house REST APIs that to integrate with the products. No algorithmic problems, though, you're right about that. The closest thing I can think of relating to time complexity for web dev are when N+1 queries are used unnecessarily. I fix those, and change them into single queries. For what it's worth, though, Amazon did reach out to me and I did two rounds of interviews with them. I bombed the tech on the second one. Senior level web? Heh, even in web don't even think I'm that far. I have zero professional experience with anything but PHP which is going out of demand in newer positions. On the JavaScript side I have done two React projects, all the companies I worked for had old-school JS though. Bunch of vanilla JS with jQUery strewn in, hundreds of files, no usage of Node nor modules.