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I agree with you completely that these frameworks are old. They don't get features like websockets immediately. From a performance standpoint, they are lacking

by wyc 9y ago

I agree with you completely that these frameworks are old. They don't get features like websockets immediately. From a performance standpoint, they are lacking with respect to compiled languages. Statically-typed choices have come a long way. However, for new business owners who don't care so much about getting an A+ for technical excellence, I would still stand by this advice. The benefits of technology maturity and ecosystem are extremely compelling. Today, for someone who just wants to let their users log in with Facebook, Elixir has far fewer user-friendly resources and will require more technical expertise to produce the same result. How many StackOverflow questions address common woes in these popular frameworks as opposed to the up-and-comers? How easy is it to hire someone to build + maintain? What about for hiring on the cheap? What existing libraries and integrations exist? Of course, these things get better for new technologies over time. Until then, I can't tell people to use them if it incurs a disproportionate cost to achieve the same return. Lastly, that "it's old" is not a compelling reason to me to recommend something else. GNU/Linux was created in the 90s, and it's still everywhere and growing. There's a job for an operating system to do, and GNU/Linux solves it well enough for the amount of effort required to use it. I believe the same to be true for Django or Rails in building a fast business prototype for most enterprise or consumer use cases. I think measures of suitability for the task are more relevant than age.

sho 9y ago
Well, I agree with you of course. Re-reading my comment, I overstated my case somewhat. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle. I suppose I was reacting to the previous comments as well, asserting that anyone choosing anything other than the boring, tried-and-true mature stacks for any new project whatsoever was being "seduced by technology" and otherwise an irresponsible and non-pragmatic neophilic dilettante who is not a Serious Businessman Like Me. For the use case you're describing, I agree completely with your comments. Perhaps a useful razor is - if you can't state specifically why you can't use rails (and don't say "it doesn't scale"!) - then use rails. I concede that 90% of the time, this is probably the case. And yes, harping on about its age was silly of me. Age does not inherently mean anything. I'd use postgres (1984!) over mongodb anyday. And erlang is older than ruby. Right tool for the job is far more important, thanks for pulling me up on that. All that said - I still think that categorically stating "use boring technology" or "just use rails" for absolutely any new project is harmful. New technologies are not always just about the new shiny, they can provide capabilities and functionality simply unachievable with the old. Look at what you can do with concurrency with phoenix. Look at what you can do with react native. Roundly writing off the whole idea of using this new tech as "magpie development" is just lazy.

by wyc 9y ago

sho 9y ago

Well, I agree with you of course. Re-reading my comment, I overstated my case somewhat. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle. I suppose I was reacting to the previous comments as well, asserting that anyone choosing anything other than the boring, tried-and-true mature stacks for any new project whatsoever was being "seduced by technology" and otherwise an irresponsible and non-pragmatic neophilic dilettante who is not a Serious Businessman Like Me. For the use case you're describing, I agree completely with your comments. Perhaps a useful razor is - if you can't state specifically why you can't use rails (and don't say "it doesn't scale"!) - then use rails. I concede that 90% of the time, this is probably the case. And yes, harping on about its age was silly of me. Age does not inherently mean anything. I'd use postgres (1984!) over mongodb anyday. And erlang is older than ruby. Right tool for the job is far more important, thanks for pulling me up on that. All that said - I still think that categorically stating "use boring technology" or "just use rails" for absolutely any new project is harmful. New technologies are not always just about the new shiny, they can provide capabilities and functionality simply unachievable with the old. Look at what you can do with concurrency with phoenix. Look at what you can do with react native. Roundly writing off the whole idea of using this new tech as "magpie development" is just lazy.