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Of course, economic hardship is at the heart of many of society's problems, drugs included. I don't argue with that. What I am skeptical of is the idea that peo

by Touche 10y ago

Of course, economic hardship is at the heart of many of society's problems, drugs included. I don't argue with that. What I am skeptical of is the idea that people, once they reach adulthood and see dim prospects, turn to drugs to cope with that depression. The article you linked to pushes the same idea. From my bubbled existence, most of the people who I went to school with who became drug addicts were always part of "the bad kids" cliques; those who always saw life through the prism of partying and never had ambitions to be much of anything. Maybe my perspective is totally wrong, and most drug addicts were B students who just decided not to go to college, but if that's the case I'd love hard data.

throwanem 10y ago
> What I am skeptical of is the idea that people, once they reach adulthood and see dim prospects, turn to drugs to cope with that depression. Do you really find the idea of people self-medicating depression hard to encompass? I'm having a hard time myself, encompassing the idea that there is anywhere in the world this might seem like a controversial question.
- Atheros 10y ago
  He almost certainly understands that. But he is saying that he wants data that demonstrates that the economic hardship causes the depression rather than drug use causing the depression. Obviously these causes are all intertwined but I think he's saying that it probably isn't particularly unidirectional. "The man in this article was already an addict before he was old enough to have any perspective on his future potential."
  - throwanem 10y ago
    FTA, my emphases: > Johnson started using opioids in high school after breaking his collarbone, first in football and again while wrestling, and he got hooked on his prescription, his mother thinks. He was a functional addict at first, caring and warm, but things slipped out of control after he graduated and found that his skills—art and cooking, but not academics—meant little in the workforce. In Arnade's formulation, this is how a front-row kid who succeeded looks at a back-row kid who failed. "Where's the numbers?" and "Always looked to me like drugs are for people without ambition in the first place." Which, fine, if that's how you want to look at it. But, speaking as a back-row kid who's known a lot of front-row people and had a lot of front-row jobs, it doesn't aid understanding.
    - Touche 10y ago
      What I was trying to say is that it's more complex than the article paints it. Certainly despair, and economic despair in particular, is at the heart of many of societies problems, drugs included. But it's not necessarily the one in despair that turned to drugs. It might be his/her kids, who grew up without a supportive family (or perhaps were abused) when then found friends who accepted them, who turned them on to drugs. I mean, drug stats are what they are, more than 50% start before their 18.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        I mean, maybe? Where are you trying to go with this?

by Touche 10y ago

throwanem 10y ago

> What I am skeptical of is the idea that people, once they reach adulthood and see dim prospects, turn to drugs to cope with that depression. Do you really find the idea of people self-medicating depression hard to encompass? I'm having a hard time myself, encompassing the idea that there is anywhere in the world this might seem like a controversial question.

Atheros 10y ago
He almost certainly understands that. But he is saying that he wants data that demonstrates that the economic hardship causes the depression rather than drug use causing the depression. Obviously these causes are all intertwined but I think he's saying that it probably isn't particularly unidirectional. "The man in this article was already an addict before he was old enough to have any perspective on his future potential."
- throwanem 10y ago
  FTA, my emphases: > Johnson started using opioids in high school after breaking his collarbone, first in football and again while wrestling, and he got hooked on his prescription, his mother thinks. He was a functional addict at first, caring and warm, but things slipped out of control after he graduated and found that his skills—art and cooking, but not academics—meant little in the workforce. In Arnade's formulation, this is how a front-row kid who succeeded looks at a back-row kid who failed. "Where's the numbers?" and "Always looked to me like drugs are for people without ambition in the first place." Which, fine, if that's how you want to look at it. But, speaking as a back-row kid who's known a lot of front-row people and had a lot of front-row jobs, it doesn't aid understanding.
  - Touche 10y ago
    What I was trying to say is that it's more complex than the article paints it. Certainly despair, and economic despair in particular, is at the heart of many of societies problems, drugs included. But it's not necessarily the one in despair that turned to drugs. It might be his/her kids, who grew up without a supportive family (or perhaps were abused) when then found friends who accepted them, who turned them on to drugs. I mean, drug stats are what they are, more than 50% start before their 18.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      I mean, maybe? Where are you trying to go with this?