16 ms·

Words like "bruh" and "gainz" send a signal that is probably better off un-sent.

by shaggyfrog 10y ago

reilly3000 10y ago
Chill brah
ocharles 10y ago
That's right, we should always strive to assess technical projects based on how the author communicates.
- cbhl 10y ago
  I realize you're being sarcastic, but certain forms of communication anecdotally correlate with inappropriate behavior (harassment, offensive verbal remarks, stalking, gender discrimination). Even if the tone is being used facetiously -- especially when it is being used facetiously -- we must be clear in communicating what behavior is and isn't acceptable. Failing to do so makes women feel uncomfortable, and teaches impressionable young coders (the college kids that typically have time to write sarcastic open-source one-off projects) that this kind of thing is okay.
  - praneshp 10y ago
    > Failing to do so makes women feel uncomfortable Honest question, are you a woman? I generally agree that our industry has to do a lot more work to make everyone feel included and utilize all the talent available. But I disagree that using the word 'bruh' should be discouraged, or that it correlates with inappropriate behavior. Especially if it's anecdotal, its just correlation, not causation, and shouldn't be read into. (Unless 'bruh' has a meaning other than 'bro', short for 'brother', that I don't know about).
    - jayqui 10y ago
      Shouldn't we err on the side of not excluding or offending people if there's a reasonable possibility that we would be?
      - Karunamon 10y ago
        Is anyone legitimately offended by the word "bruh", or is this whole thread just tedious virtue signaling which contributes absolutely nothing of substance? Given the absence of anyone claiming to be in the first category, I'm forced to conclude it's the second. Let's make sure a problem actually exists before going out of our way to solve it, hm?
        debaserab2 10y ago
        I don't feel excluded or offended (although I completely understand that argument), but using language like that makes me less likely to want to engage with you because I find it immature. I find the way it contorts english grammar detracts from content and dilutes the message. If there was something funny about it I'd find it much easier to ignore, but all it's communicating is that you identify with a particular subculture in our industry that I find to be immature. It's just a turn off and a bad first impression. That said, if I needed it I'd probably still use it regardless.
        bshimmin 10y ago
        I don't find it offensive, but I did find it quite annoying, likewise "Wat?" and "AF", and I thought to myself that it was a shame that what appears to be a useful tool had a README littered with this twee, cliquey stuff that I find somewhere between boring, irrelevant, and annoying, and certainly never funny. I don't know if I'm a square, yet, but I'm definitely a curmudgeon, especially when I'm hungry. (As a passing observation, I might also add that any conversation which features the magical expression "virtue signalling" is unlikely ever to be a valuable one.)
        Karunamon 10y ago
        Fair enough, but that's humor. Not everyone gets everything. I'm pushing 30 and still get silly giggles out of things like Bernhardt's "Wat" talk [1]. As for virtue signaling, it is a thing that exists[2], and writing off any conversation where one points out that it's happening is probably doing themselves a disservice. Much like any other kind of social signaling, it doesn't even necessarily happen consciously. [1]: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat [2]: https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2701968/virtue-signalling-meaning-origin-examples/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2701968/virtue-signalling-me...
  - travisjungroth 10y ago
    Your second paragraph has made a huge leap. It's not fair to say that allowing young men to talk like young men condones terrible behavior. These aren't white supremacist dog whistles. I think your response is totally appropriate if the package included "14/88" and "HH". It's over the top and betrays your own biases against men when pointed at "bruh" and "gainz".
  - ElatedOwl 10y ago
    >bruh >gainz These terms come from the fitness world. At first glance, it seems you're implying that the fitness world is full of gender discrimination etc. FWIW bro (brah, bruh, etc.) is commonly used gender neutrally, much like dude. I'm all for inclusion but I would hardly consider facetiously using brah and gainz as offensive or misogynistic.
  - CrystalLangUser 10y ago
    > teaches impressionable young coders (the college kids that typically have time to write sarcastic open-source one-off projects) that this kind of thing is okay. Teaching that what, exactly is ok? Using the word "bruh"? In all seriousness, how old are you? Plenty of people use that word, and it's not just guys. Is it on the immature side? Yes, but it's not really condoning whatever behavior. Unless you have data backing that assertion, you are just projecting from a mere readme file.
- earthtolazlo 10y ago
  This, but unironically.
- debaserab2 10y ago
  Correct. That's an incredibly important attribute of all technical projects.
deleted 10y ago
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rhizome 10y ago
It's probably a better indicator of their audience, the in-group. I don't know how old you are, but this is what it's like to become a square. The thing is, if you don't like it and get stuck on lingo, there's a good chance you're going to be left behind by the future. Your complaint is a symptom of falling into the out-group of the cutting edge, into becoming part of The Previous Generation.
- eli 10y ago
  There's no reason to go out of your way to create the feeling of an in-group and an out-group.
  - Karunamon 10y ago
    There's also no reason to go out of your way to demand that the author of a tool structure their readme doc according to your own personal opinion on social norms in the context of a damned update monitoring tool - especially for something as utterly inoffensive as "bruh".
    - bisby 10y ago
      damned open source update monitoring tool, where you can change the verbiage if you really don't like it. if you like the idea and not the verbiage, change it. if you like the idea and dont mind the verbiage, no issue. if you dont like the idea, then you dont need the tool
    - sametmax 10y ago
      The guy is providing a free tool coded on his own time without being paid. He can write the README the god damn way he wants.
      - jakelazaroff 10y ago
        This is a community, and they're using alienating language. The fact that they did it for free has nothing to do with whether or not we should discourage that behavior.
jayqui 10y ago
This is correct. Off-putting to non-males and other developers who wouldn't consider themselves a "bruh". Not judging the merits of the software but rather promoting inclusiveness.
- sergiotapia 10y ago
  This has nothing to do with sex, sweet jesus!
  - stan_rogers 10y ago
    Yes, it does... whether you can see it or not.
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- jakelazaroff 10y ago
  Not sure why parent is being downvoted. "Bruh" is a term with a bunch of connotations, including gender. Are people really that uncomfortable with the idea that the words they use affect people?
  - hackmiester 10y ago
    My ideal HN would be one where this kind of thing could be discussed. It's sad to see stuff like your comment's parent down-modded when there could have been enlightening discussion.
    - 10y ago
usaphp 10y ago
Your profile says your company website is http://www.shaggyfrog.com/ http://www.shaggyfrog.com/ which is currently being parked and not used, does it send a signal that you are bad at what you do because you can't even handle your own website? Let's not make assumptions based on how the person talks, what if he likes to use those words but creates great and useful utilities?
- sctb 10y ago
  No matter what someone has said, we don't get into personal attacks like this here.
root_axis 10y ago
I care about inclusivity, but I think you're making too much of some benign humor. Perhaps it is humor not to your tastes, but it's such a minor aberration (a couple words in a README) that I think it's unfair to judge the project based off of it. If, for example, the code outputted similarly unprofessional language into the console or something to that effect, I'd agree, but I think in this case it's really no big deal.
- deleted 10y ago
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david-given 10y ago
Is this a particularly US-centric thing? Because over here in Europeland, I don't think I have ever, like, ever seen a use of bro-speak that wasn't intentionally self-parodic. But people do seem to react strongly against it, so... I guess it's a real thing somewhere? If so, where?
- throwasehasdwi 10y ago
  It's mostly college fraternity/sorority subculture which is pretty unique to the US. A lot of people hate college fraternities for whatever reasons and that hate sometimes extends to their language. Ironically, it's used within fraternities all the time as a self parody. I was in one for years and never heard anyone say it in a serious matter. Essentially fraternities use it to troll people that already dislike the subculture.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

Words like "bruh" and "gainz" send a signal that is probably better off un-sent.

reilly3000 10y ago

Chill brah

ocharles 10y ago

That's right, we should always strive to assess technical projects based on how the author communicates.

cbhl 10y ago
I realize you're being sarcastic, but certain forms of communication anecdotally correlate with inappropriate behavior (harassment, offensive verbal remarks, stalking, gender discrimination). Even if the tone is being used facetiously -- especially when it is being used facetiously -- we must be clear in communicating what behavior is and isn't acceptable. Failing to do so makes women feel uncomfortable, and teaches impressionable young coders (the college kids that typically have time to write sarcastic open-source one-off projects) that this kind of thing is okay.
- praneshp 10y ago
  > Failing to do so makes women feel uncomfortable Honest question, are you a woman? I generally agree that our industry has to do a lot more work to make everyone feel included and utilize all the talent available. But I disagree that using the word 'bruh' should be discouraged, or that it correlates with inappropriate behavior. Especially if it's anecdotal, its just correlation, not causation, and shouldn't be read into. (Unless 'bruh' has a meaning other than 'bro', short for 'brother', that I don't know about).
  - jayqui 10y ago
    Shouldn't we err on the side of not excluding or offending people if there's a reasonable possibility that we would be?
    - Karunamon 10y ago
      Is anyone legitimately offended by the word "bruh", or is this whole thread just tedious virtue signaling which contributes absolutely nothing of substance? Given the absence of anyone claiming to be in the first category, I'm forced to conclude it's the second. Let's make sure a problem actually exists before going out of our way to solve it, hm?
      - debaserab2 10y ago
        I don't feel excluded or offended (although I completely understand that argument), but using language like that makes me less likely to want to engage with you because I find it immature. I find the way it contorts english grammar detracts from content and dilutes the message. If there was something funny about it I'd find it much easier to ignore, but all it's communicating is that you identify with a particular subculture in our industry that I find to be immature. It's just a turn off and a bad first impression. That said, if I needed it I'd probably still use it regardless.
      - bshimmin 10y ago
        I don't find it offensive, but I did find it quite annoying, likewise "Wat?" and "AF", and I thought to myself that it was a shame that what appears to be a useful tool had a README littered with this twee, cliquey stuff that I find somewhere between boring, irrelevant, and annoying, and certainly never funny. I don't know if I'm a square, yet, but I'm definitely a curmudgeon, especially when I'm hungry. (As a passing observation, I might also add that any conversation which features the magical expression "virtue signalling" is unlikely ever to be a valuable one.)
        Karunamon 10y ago
        Fair enough, but that's humor. Not everyone gets everything. I'm pushing 30 and still get silly giggles out of things like Bernhardt's "Wat" talk [1]. As for virtue signaling, it is a thing that exists[2], and writing off any conversation where one points out that it's happening is probably doing themselves a disservice. Much like any other kind of social signaling, it doesn't even necessarily happen consciously. [1]: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat [2]: https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2701968/virtue-signalling-meaning-origin-examples/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2701968/virtue-signalling-me...
- travisjungroth 10y ago
  Your second paragraph has made a huge leap. It's not fair to say that allowing young men to talk like young men condones terrible behavior. These aren't white supremacist dog whistles. I think your response is totally appropriate if the package included "14/88" and "HH". It's over the top and betrays your own biases against men when pointed at "bruh" and "gainz".
- ElatedOwl 10y ago
  >bruh >gainz These terms come from the fitness world. At first glance, it seems you're implying that the fitness world is full of gender discrimination etc. FWIW bro (brah, bruh, etc.) is commonly used gender neutrally, much like dude. I'm all for inclusion but I would hardly consider facetiously using brah and gainz as offensive or misogynistic.
- CrystalLangUser 10y ago
  > teaches impressionable young coders (the college kids that typically have time to write sarcastic open-source one-off projects) that this kind of thing is okay. Teaching that what, exactly is ok? Using the word "bruh"? In all seriousness, how old are you? Plenty of people use that word, and it's not just guys. Is it on the immature side? Yes, but it's not really condoning whatever behavior. Unless you have data backing that assertion, you are just projecting from a mere readme file.
earthtolazlo 10y ago
This, but unironically.
debaserab2 10y ago
Correct. That's an incredibly important attribute of all technical projects.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

rhizome 10y ago

It's probably a better indicator of their audience, the in-group. I don't know how old you are, but this is what it's like to become a square. The thing is, if you don't like it and get stuck on lingo, there's a good chance you're going to be left behind by the future. Your complaint is a symptom of falling into the out-group of the cutting edge, into becoming part of The Previous Generation.

eli 10y ago
There's no reason to go out of your way to create the feeling of an in-group and an out-group.
- Karunamon 10y ago
  There's also no reason to go out of your way to demand that the author of a tool structure their readme doc according to your own personal opinion on social norms in the context of a damned update monitoring tool - especially for something as utterly inoffensive as "bruh".
  - bisby 10y ago
    damned open source update monitoring tool, where you can change the verbiage if you really don't like it. if you like the idea and not the verbiage, change it. if you like the idea and dont mind the verbiage, no issue. if you dont like the idea, then you dont need the tool
  - sametmax 10y ago
    The guy is providing a free tool coded on his own time without being paid. He can write the README the god damn way he wants.
    - jakelazaroff 10y ago
      This is a community, and they're using alienating language. The fact that they did it for free has nothing to do with whether or not we should discourage that behavior.

jayqui 10y ago

This is correct. Off-putting to non-males and other developers who wouldn't consider themselves a "bruh". Not judging the merits of the software but rather promoting inclusiveness.

sergiotapia 10y ago
This has nothing to do with sex, sweet jesus!
- stan_rogers 10y ago
  Yes, it does... whether you can see it or not.
  - deleted 10y ago
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jakelazaroff 10y ago
Not sure why parent is being downvoted. "Bruh" is a term with a bunch of connotations, including gender. Are people really that uncomfortable with the idea that the words they use affect people?
- hackmiester 10y ago
  My ideal HN would be one where this kind of thing could be discussed. It's sad to see stuff like your comment's parent down-modded when there could have been enlightening discussion.
  - 10y ago

usaphp 10y ago

Your profile says your company website is http://www.shaggyfrog.com/ http://www.shaggyfrog.com/ which is currently being parked and not used, does it send a signal that you are bad at what you do because you can't even handle your own website? Let's not make assumptions based on how the person talks, what if he likes to use those words but creates great and useful utilities?

sctb 10y ago
No matter what someone has said, we don't get into personal attacks like this here.

root_axis 10y ago

I care about inclusivity, but I think you're making too much of some benign humor. Perhaps it is humor not to your tastes, but it's such a minor aberration (a couple words in a README) that I think it's unfair to judge the project based off of it. If, for example, the code outputted similarly unprofessional language into the console or something to that effect, I'd agree, but I think in this case it's really no big deal.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

david-given 10y ago

Is this a particularly US-centric thing? Because over here in Europeland, I don't think I have ever, like, ever seen a use of bro-speak that wasn't intentionally self-parodic. But people do seem to react strongly against it, so... I guess it's a real thing somewhere? If so, where?

throwasehasdwi 10y ago
It's mostly college fraternity/sorority subculture which is pretty unique to the US. A lot of people hate college fraternities for whatever reasons and that hate sometimes extends to their language. Ironically, it's used within fraternities all the time as a self parody. I was in one for years and never heard anyone say it in a serious matter. Essentially fraternities use it to troll people that already dislike the subculture.

deleted 10y ago

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