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> Aren't we supposed to be qualified for a job when applying for a job? Juniors aren't, though they are expected to show some capability in the matter (and tha

by dozzie 10y ago

> Aren't we supposed to be qualified for a job when applying for a job? Juniors aren't, though they are expected to show some capability in the matter (and that's why everybody demands from them a college degree). In the old days companies were training their employees on the job. In those days it wasn't uncommon for employee to stick to a company for twenty-thirty years, so training paid off for the company. Today employee works only for couple of years before moving (or being moved) to next company, so it's not surprising nobody wants to train anybody from ground up. Training requires loyalty from both parties, which is a scarce resource nowadays. > I'm a senior software engineer, why do I have to spend hours/weeks/months on Leet Code, Hacker Rank, etc. in order to be prepared for a "technical interview" these days? I don't. Apparently it's a location-specific phenomenon. > Why do technical interviews force me to re-learn something not relevant to the actual job I'm applying for? [...] I'm referring to the mathematical/academic concepts like big O, binary trees, graphs, linked list, etc. I don't know what are you doing in your work, but in my job data structures and computational complexity are important basics. Without ability to juggle with those in my head (assessing complexity on the fly) I couldn't even start to think about anything substantial. And I'm not even fully fledged programmer, I'm in large part a sysadmin.

bsvalley 10y ago
Let me ask you this question - when was last time you used a binary tree at work? Just curious. Maybe you do use this stuff. Then in this case the current hiring process is perfect for you. I manipulate hash tables all day everyday and data structures at a high level. Languages like Java, Objective-c, swift, etc. aren't built for schools. They are built for professionals who want to build products. Which is what I do all day. The underlying/academic thing isn't relevant anymore in 2017. Plus, I graduated from college with a CS major 10 years ago. That alone should be enough for a company to believe I'm not a Walmart employee trying to switch careers. (I have nothing against Walmart employees). Are you a Mac user or a PC user? Let's say you're a Mac user. What if I ask you specific questions about the OS X kernel? If you use it everyday then you should know how it works right? We, software engineers, build products, or at least the majority of us. Technical interviews should focus on that, we should be building mini products and features and get evaluated on that rather than white boarding stuff.
- dozzie 10y ago
  > Let me ask you this question - when was last time you used a binary tree at work? Three tools ago (my tools are small and orbit around 5kLOC). And it seems I'll need one again in current tool, for similar reasons. > Languages like Java, Objective-c, swift, etc. aren't built for schools. Very little languages were written for schools specifically. But this doesn't mean much, because the same stands for table saws or CNC machines, yet students (woodworkers and machinists) are taught to operate those. > The underlying/academic thing isn't relevant anymore in 2017. As I said, I don't know what you do in your work, but the underlying concepts are not relevant only if you never use them. Which I think tells something if even a sysadmin uses them. > Plus, I graduated from college with a CS major 10 years ago. If we're bragging, then I don't even have a degree and apparently I have work experience of similar length. And compare our attitudes towards data structures knowledge: I use it often, you don't. What went wrong? > [CS degree] That alone should be enough for a company to believe I'm not a Walmart employee trying to switch careers. As I said, quizzes about data structures seem to be a location-based thing. > We, software engineers, build products, or at least the majority of us. Technical interviews should focus on that, we should be building mini products and features and get evaluated on that rather than white boarding stuff. Mind you, I don't claim we should not. I just say that your "white boarding stuff" seems to be local to some geographical area(s?) and that knowledge about basic algorithms and data structures is important even for a sysadmin that happens to wirte tools, so it should also be the case for regular senior programmers.
- sigjuice 10y ago
  What sort of questions about the OS X kernel do you have in mind?
toexitthedonut 10y ago
It is interesting to note that company and employee loyalty is becoming more scarce, as well as on the job training being uncommon. It does not bode well for the state of the industry, if more and more companies are having a revolving door problem with employees.

by dozzie 10y ago

bsvalley 10y ago

Let me ask you this question - when was last time you used a binary tree at work? Just curious. Maybe you do use this stuff. Then in this case the current hiring process is perfect for you. I manipulate hash tables all day everyday and data structures at a high level. Languages like Java, Objective-c, swift, etc. aren't built for schools. They are built for professionals who want to build products. Which is what I do all day. The underlying/academic thing isn't relevant anymore in 2017. Plus, I graduated from college with a CS major 10 years ago. That alone should be enough for a company to believe I'm not a Walmart employee trying to switch careers. (I have nothing against Walmart employees). Are you a Mac user or a PC user? Let's say you're a Mac user. What if I ask you specific questions about the OS X kernel? If you use it everyday then you should know how it works right? We, software engineers, build products, or at least the majority of us. Technical interviews should focus on that, we should be building mini products and features and get evaluated on that rather than white boarding stuff.

dozzie 10y ago
> Let me ask you this question - when was last time you used a binary tree at work? Three tools ago (my tools are small and orbit around 5kLOC). And it seems I'll need one again in current tool, for similar reasons. > Languages like Java, Objective-c, swift, etc. aren't built for schools. Very little languages were written for schools specifically. But this doesn't mean much, because the same stands for table saws or CNC machines, yet students (woodworkers and machinists) are taught to operate those. > The underlying/academic thing isn't relevant anymore in 2017. As I said, I don't know what you do in your work, but the underlying concepts are not relevant only if you never use them. Which I think tells something if even a sysadmin uses them. > Plus, I graduated from college with a CS major 10 years ago. If we're bragging, then I don't even have a degree and apparently I have work experience of similar length. And compare our attitudes towards data structures knowledge: I use it often, you don't. What went wrong? > [CS degree] That alone should be enough for a company to believe I'm not a Walmart employee trying to switch careers. As I said, quizzes about data structures seem to be a location-based thing. > We, software engineers, build products, or at least the majority of us. Technical interviews should focus on that, we should be building mini products and features and get evaluated on that rather than white boarding stuff. Mind you, I don't claim we should not. I just say that your "white boarding stuff" seems to be local to some geographical area(s?) and that knowledge about basic algorithms and data structures is important even for a sysadmin that happens to wirte tools, so it should also be the case for regular senior programmers.
sigjuice 10y ago
What sort of questions about the OS X kernel do you have in mind?

toexitthedonut 10y ago

It is interesting to note that company and employee loyalty is becoming more scarce, as well as on the job training being uncommon. It does not bode well for the state of the industry, if more and more companies are having a revolving door problem with employees.