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Sony debuts the new Alpha 9 mirrorless camera with 20fps continuous shooting

77 points by artsandsci 10y ago

frandroid 10y ago
> an Ethernet port !!!
- mattpavelle 10y ago
  Yeah, there can be a lot of bandwidth required. RAW images at 24.2MP are around 30-40MB (https://toolstud.io/photo/megapixel.php?width=6016&height=4016 https://toolstud.io/photo/megapixel.php?width=6016&height=40...) and at 20FPS you're above 1Gbps (which a crowded wireless network certainly can't handle). Add those bandwidth requirements to some of the real-time workflows professionals engage in today (see http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a9/sony-a9A.HTM http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a9/sony-a9A.HTM and the comments around 11:53) such as: "first Sony camera with an ethernet port. Have to be real time. Shows, presidential debates, every shot I took went right out onto the network as soon as I shot it." and "for major UFC events, it’s vital to be able to do a live workflow, where images are constantly going back to an edit station and go out to the world immediately. Not only the ethernet, but the wireless is key for social media outfits all over the world." and ethernet makes sense.
  - keymone 10y ago
    usb 3 is 5Gbps, thunderbolt is 10Gbps, thunderbolt 3 is 40Gbps. i don't think it makes sense to put ethernet ports on anything smaller than a rack blade.
    - djrogers 10y ago
      If you're suggesting they went with a USB or TB ethernet adapter instead, think about the complexity of supporting the numerous available NIC chipsets on something like a camera...
      - monort 10y ago
        There is a Linux inside Sony Alpha. No problem with drivers :)
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - gregmac 10y ago
      They can also only go 5m, 3m and 3m, respectively, before interfacing to a computer (which then uses ethernet to go somewhere else anyway). Ethernet makes sense if you consider that images are going straight from the camera to the control room (which is hundreds of feet away, and possibly parked outside in a truck), and that there's likely already network infrastructure (switches and cabling) in place for dozens of other reasons.
    - justin66 10y ago
      Ethernet provides (close to) the advertised bandwidth without any fuss and is compatible with everything. Contrast with the others you listed.
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      I do. It's increasingly common to have a rolling NAS on film sets and being able to hook up the camera and storage with an ethernet cable is a no brainer for many productions. Time is money and video workflows have historically been a logistical nightmare. Generally when you're shooting narrative on a pro camera you have to stop every 20-30 minutes to swap media. I would much rather string a cable and have one less technical person and two more people in the art department for the same money. Media management is a huge bottleneck, not to mention a source of continuous low-grade anxiety.
- dluan 10y ago
  Sony is better at being Apple than Apple is.
PuffinBlue 10y ago
Wow. That's an impressive spec list for a body this size. I don't see anything about how weather sealed it is and the press release doesn't mention it either.
- Veratyr 10y ago
  I think the press event is still in progress, we'll be finding out more as the day goes on.
vvanders 10y ago
Impressive camera for sure but something missing in a couple articles I've seen on this is glossing over the fact that Nikon/Canon have a huge library of lenses. With photography it's largely the lens that drives the photo(which makes sense when you think of photographing in terms of painting with light). Until you see Sony breaking out the 300mm F2.8, 400mm F2.8, 600mm F4 and others you won't see much pick-up on the segment they're targeting(1DX, etc). For instance a 400mm F2.8 goes for 2x the cost of this camera alone(~$10k). There's adapters for EF->Sony, however they're hit and miss on functionality and focusing speed.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Sony's been doing an impressive job. But another factor that dovetails with Canon/Nikon system investments is that all of these big DSLRs have features that are already well past the point of diminishing returns for a lot of people. I have a Canon 5Diii and I have no urge to upgrade it much less switch systems. (To be honest, I don't even use it all that much because I have other cameras that are far smaller and do a perfectly adequate job for most things.)
- PuffinBlue 10y ago
  Sony has a 300mm f2.8 and 500mm f4, so it's not a million miles behind. The system as a whole is getting pretty compelling TBH. Using a camera that can focus track and calculate exposure at over 20fps with nearly 700 auto focus points across almost the whole frame would for sure let me capture stuff I couldn't on any other camera. And that's not to mention the silent shutter at this speed - I could literally capture photos I wouldn't be allowed to (golf anyone???) with a mechanical and noisy shutter. Even if I did it on a 500mm f4 and cropped in some of those 24mp! I'm a Nikon guy (well, I did shoot with the old a900 and some Canon/Olympus stuff too) and I'd certainly consider working very hard to deal with any lens short comings with a camera this capable.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- wklauss 10y ago
  OTOH, being a mirrorless system you can use an adapter for pretty much any lens ever made, not only Canon but any possible glass that has been used in the modern history of photography. And some times without any significant loss of functionality. But yeah, its true. Professionals take to stick to brands for a lot of reasons. Investment already made in lenses, repairability, how easy is to find a colleague during a job that can loan you some missing equipment, etc... Sony is not going to conquer the professional market overnight, granted, but it's important to have this camera in their catalog to start moving things in that direction.
randiantech 10y ago
Impressive hardware indeed, but price is prohibitive (at least for me!) right now: usd4500
cs702 10y ago
DSLRs with mirror mechanisms are now officially a technological dead-end. This new camera does things that are not possible with DSLR bodies, including SILENT 20FPS shooting, WITHOUT BLACKOUT, WITHOUT DISTORTION FROM ROLLING SHUTTER, and with SHUTTER SPEED UP TO 1/32000 -- very impressive. Sports and other pro photographers that need high-end performance will take notice. Mirrorless cameras are now clearly the future of pro photography. Canon and Nikon should be very worried. EDIT: Here's a good first look explaining the importance of all new features: http://briansmith.com/sony-a9-camera-fe-100-400mm-gm-lens-review/ http://briansmith.com/sony-a9-camera-fe-100-400mm-gm-lens-re...
- sp332 10y ago
  Don't Canon and Nikon make pretty good mirrorless cameras too?
  - zokier 10y ago
    Not really. Canon mirrorless is ok, I suppose, but very much a "also-ran" and "too little, too late" in the very competitive market. Nikon mirrorless are just not very good (too small sensor for a start..)
    - Matthias247 10y ago
      I have a Nikon 1 and I'm pretty satisfied with it. Key features for me were small package size, low weight and fast shooting (10/20fps with phase-detection autofocus). My use-case is being able to take some decent bike-action pictures with a camera that easily fits in a backpack. For other usecases the offerings from the other brands might be a better fit.
    - hengheng 10y ago
      Canon's EF-m lenses are a fraction of the cost of Sony's. Sony have been pushing price points for a while to make sure they are at the top of the range, just slightly below boutique manufacturers. Meanwhile canon has a lot of experience building to a price point ... Interesting to see they chose to go down that route with their mirrorless system.
Veratyr 10y ago
Sony's product page (has full specs): https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-9 https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-camera...
bambax 10y ago
>... maintaining the professional atmosphere in a place like the White House But what about the clown in the center of the frame though.
mabbo 10y ago
Not being a camera guy, can someone explain to me why all these stats are awesome? I mean, they sound awesome, but I'm a sucker for people telling me things are awesome.
- Finnucane 10y ago
  Now people with more money than sense will be able to take bad photos faster than ever before. After autonomous cars will come autonomous cameras--the camera will be a better photographer than you are, so it won't need you to actually operate it. It'll just fly around on a drone. Have its own gallery shows. Win Pulitzers.
- visarga 10y ago
  It's a large format sensor (35mm) which captures a lot of light which means that it works better in low light, without flash. Being mirrorless makes the lenses cheaper because of optics reasons (pro lenses tend to be very expensive).
  - foldr 10y ago
    >Being mirrorless makes the lenses cheaper because of optics reasons Hmm, it should theoretically make wide angle lenses a bit cheaper because they won't have to use retrofocus designs. But I think the actual price of the lens is going to be determined by what pro photographers are used to paying for fancy wide angle lenses.
    - vr46 10y ago
      They'll be smaller and probably better, but not cheaper :)
  - wl 10y ago
    35mm is full frame, not large format. Large format starts at 4"x5". Very few large format sensors have ever been built.
- ckurose 10y ago
  What this article totally misses is that this is Sony's flagship offering not for all professional photographers, but specifically for professional SPORTS photographers. Sports photographers need super fast continuous shooting so you can get 20 shots of that epic catch in one shutter press and choose the best one. Likewise 1/32,000th of a sec shutter speed is twice as fast as most cameras' 1/8,000th of a sec fastest shutter speed, which helps to freeze quick motion. The high number of AF points is a sports feature too - one area that mirrorless still significantly lags traditional DSLRs is that their AF systems are not as fast as the type used in DSLRs, which have dedicated AF sensors (mirrorless does AF off the imaging sensor), so a ton of AF points is one way mirrorless tries to narrow the AF gap.
neom 10y ago
About 10 years ago when this high fps stuff started to become better and better in dslrs, all the sports shooters had a freak out because they got worried that their license fees would go up because events would charge them for the motion picture license not the still license. I don’t know if this ended up becoming true but it was all the talk at WEVA for years. Sony have always made great cameras, unfortunately their primes don't hold a candle to Canon or Nikon. Anyone who reaaalllly cares about this feature is probably shooting fixed (tho I've been out of the industry a long time I'm sure it's changed)
- vr46 10y ago
  I thought Carl Zeiss made their lenses? Not checked, but I have sworn by Zeiss for twenty years in their various mounts and incarnations.
  - neom 10y ago
    iirc, Sony does it's own manufacturing but works with Zeiss on most of it's lenses. In my personal opinion, and really I think it's pretty wanky to debate this stuff too much, but personally I like the fluorite UD glass from Canon, imo, has the best colour clarity and definition.
    - petre 10y ago
      Canon glass is fine if you're a professional, Zeiss and Leica is superlative but it still depends on focal lengths. I still have my Contax mount 50/1.4, because nothing save for some Leica lenses exhibit the same qualities on 35mm format. If I were a sports photographer I'd probably go with Canon though.
  - redial 10y ago
    Not all Sony lenses are Zeiss, only the most expensive ones. Most of the low end lenses are just Sony branded.
  - azhenley 10y ago
    Not all of them. Sony designs/manufactures some (known as the Sony FE and E lines) and Zeiss designs/manufactures some (Zeiss Batis, Loxia, and Touit lines). To make this even more confusing, some are designed by Zeiss but manufactured by Sony and carry both of their logos (nicknamed Zony; e.g., Sony Zeiss Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8)
appleflaxen 10y ago
I will never forgive Sony for the rootkit they installed on my computer.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  That was 12 years ago. The only reason to mention it now is to signal your nerd power level; if you actually care about this you're being absurdly petty. Just for context, Pacific Gas and Electric (the primary power utility firm in northern California) killed 8 people and destroyed an entire neighborhood a few years back due to their failure to repair a gas pipeline that they knew to be defective. An unwelcome root kit on your computer is a Bad Thing that it's reasonable to complain about at the time it happens, but as injustices go it's pretty minor. If you're still holding a grudge about it over a decade later then you've been enjoying a very sheltered life.
zokier 10y ago
While 20fps makes nice headline, it is imho the least interesting spec of this camera. Some things I find interesting: * Low light performance and dynamic range. Sony bodies have traditionally been good at this (see for example https://vimeo.com/99893160 https://vimeo.com/99893160), I hope the trend continues. * Video features. They say 4k full frame video, which sounds nice, but subsampling the sensor inherently comes with some compromises, which might be even exaggerated in 1080p mode. * There is more to video than just resolution; does it have any high-framerate modes, what sort of video formats and color profiles does it support etc etc. * The 5 stop equivalent image stabilization sounds impressive. Admittedly I haven't followed the state of art that closely, but I imagined IS being typically closer to 2-3 stop eqv. * 1/32k shutter speed seems also quite fast. I wonder what sort of new photos such fast shutter speeds enable. * Wasn't it Sony that "innovated" a lossy compressed RAW format? What sort of impact does that have on this camera? ... and probably some more.
- Veratyr 10y ago
  > They say 4k full frame video, which sounds nice, but subsampling the sensor inherently comes with some compromises, which might be even exaggerated in 1080p mode. They don't necessarily have to subsample, they may be able to supersample. I believe Panasonic's GH5 does this. > does it have any high-framerate modes, what sort of video formats and color profiles does it support etc etc. Full specs, including shooting modes, are here: https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-9/specifications https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-camera... In terms of high-framerate, it doesn't have anything for 4K but goes up to 120fps in 1080p. Can't see anything about chroma subsampling or bit-depth other than it only outputting 8-bit 4:2:2 through HDMI. > Wasn't it Sony that "innovated" a lossy compressed RAW format? What sort of impact does that have on this camera? Yep, though it appears that like the A7RII, you'll be able to disable it. It seems that doing so will roughly halve the number of frames you can take in a single burst and drop the max capture framerate to 12.
- pvdebbe 10y ago
  > * 1/32k shutter speed seems also quite fast. I wonder what sort of new photos such fast shutter speeds enable. You can shoot with wide apertures in direct sunlight without using ND filters. Fuji has had this for years now, with much more rolling shutter of course. Now that I wrote that out, doesn't sound like much. Still, it's been nice not to play around with the filters.
dluan 10y ago
So what exactly does Sony have to do to become king of cameras? This is a very good argument.
- redial 10y ago
  Lenses, they need killer lenses people are willing to switch systems for. That and better battery life.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- old-gregg 10y ago
  Well, Sony has been the "co-king" of consumer P&S cameras for a long time, but those are in steep decline due to ever increasing capabilities of smart phones, where Sony (unlike Canon or Nikon) continues to make money with their Xperia line. On the high end, they lack one key "ingredient" in my opinion which can be best described by one word: ecosystem. Ask any serious Nikon user and they'll show you a $15K collection of lenses, flashes and even old film bodies with high sentimental value to them. They will also talk for hours about "Nikon approach to color" if you'll listen. Competing against this takes time: Sony needs more lenses, more famous photographers walk around sporting their gear, consistently communicated "vision", etc. This can also be a tough cultural problem to overcome. I've been shooting Canon on and off most of my life, Nikon gear is very similar in that it feels like a computerized camera system, i.e. a computer is an add-on to an excellent camera helping you take better pictures. Fuji cameras have the same feel. But every time I try Sony it feels like mm... hard to explain, maybe like a "computer which happens to take photos"? Very subjective, of course, but since you asked. ;)
  - dluan 10y ago
    I've tried the fujifilm mirrorless cameras, and they've also had that feeling of portable camera with a computer attached. I've personally always loved the feeling of a computer engine driving the sony camera (a7 evf is wonderful). If mirrorless is the future, and partially what allowed Sony to make 1/32000 possible, then does that mean Canon/Nikon are playing catch up?
gfdgfdg 10y ago
But 20 fps isn't that much. Why not 60 or 120?
- rconti 10y ago
  Because the data rate on 6000x4000 pixels uncompressed times 60 would be insane? 4k video is only 4096x2160.
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  > But 20 fps isn't that much. 20FPS is insane on a 24MP full-frame camera. Each RAW is 6000x4000.. The image buffer can handle 241 pictures, so you can basically capture 12 seconds of 6k video. To give some context, this camera can easily record 120FPS 1080P video with full autofocusing. It can record no-crop 4K video which means if you take a video of a scene, you can grab a full 24MP still from the video. 1080P video has 2 million pixels, 4K video has 8.3 million pixels, burst mode on this camera has 24 million pixels per still.
rb808 10y ago
Nikon and Canon dominate the pro space for more than just the tech specs of their products. The support is amazing - check out this blog article to see. I thought B&H was close to photographers heaven but I've never seen anything like this. http://blog.jeffcable.com/2016/08/a-very-rare-look-inside-canons.html http://blog.jeffcable.com/2016/08/a-very-rare-look-inside-ca... Producing the camera that has the best specs doesn't necessarily mean that pros will be using it. (Depends on the size of the gap of course)
pinum 10y ago
If we imagine for a moment that it were 24 or 30fps continuous- could that output be used for video as an alternative to the designated video modes? What would make the results different?
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  The fact that 24/30 < 60fps, which is the video frame rate (and autofocus rate) in 4K video mode.
- beschizza 10y ago
  Each frame would be 6000x4000 pixels -- 6K with a 3x2 aspect ratio. 20 fps is almost there (playing at 24fps is a 12% speedup), but how long can you practically record at that speed?
  - mikeyouse 10y ago
    The image buffer is 241 pictures so it'd be about 12 seconds of recording at 20FPS.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Yes, absolutely. The difference would be in the resolution (stills are typically way higher than video), and the fact that you'd need to do your video playback offline. You could use it for video now at 20fps (anything over 18 is adequate if you don't mind it looking a bit stylized) but you're likely to run into data bottlenecks...or maybe not, Sony has historically been pretty good at handling high data rates and the removable media themselves are constantly improving sustainable write speeds.
- Veratyr 10y ago
  Yes. Doing so would put the files in the same class as the CinemaDNG output by Blackmagic Design's cameras or RED's R3D. The difference is similar to the difference between JPEG and RAW in stills. You get a lot more flexibility in post and can usually capture a little more dynamic range. There's a video comparing RAW video to H.264 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkSYIzCgdIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkSYIzCgdIk
magic5227 10y ago
Where does the A7r II / A7S fit in with this? Are they considered a prosumer version of this camera? And if so, what makes this more professional, the FPS?
- azhenley 10y ago
  Yes, the A7 models seem to be more geared for prosumers or non-sports/wildlife professionals (e.g., for portraits I'd still lean towards the A7Rii). The A9 is more "professional" because of its dual memory card slots, supposedly much better AF, FPS, battery life, and controls (joystick).
- imjk 10y ago
  Not an exact parallel but I see the A7R as the MD Mark III and the a9 as the 1DX.
  - magic5227 10y ago
    That's interesting considering so many professionals use the Mark III. I recall seeing an article that the NYTimes staff all used Mark II's at one point.
bitL 10y ago
If they finally made auto-focus acceptable, I am willing to dump D750 as my main hyperlapse-creation tool and buy Alpha 9 for travel. Mirrorless always had issues with focus, if the improved quantum efficiency of the sensor allows better focus, they have a winner.
pklausler 10y ago
Has Sony fixed their ARW raw file compression story yet? Last I checked, you had a choice between a huge uncompressed raw and a lossy compression technique susceptible to posterization artifacts on high-contrast vertical edges.
jumpkickhit 10y ago
I'm excited for the A9"S" I guess, the super low-light version of this. Can't afford either one though, but I can dream.
gseymour2 10y ago
One complaint I read about Sony mirrorless is a greater tendency to have dust problems due to lack of a mirror. Anyone familiar with that issue and know if it is a real problem?
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Lack of a mirror shouldn't affect that; the fact that it is shutterless (which doesn't require being mirrorless; there have been shutterless DSLRs) might.
alkonaut 10y ago
Is this a successor to the 7-series cameras, or a step above?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

77 points by artsandsci 10y ago

frandroid 10y ago

> an Ethernet port !!!

mattpavelle 10y ago
Yeah, there can be a lot of bandwidth required. RAW images at 24.2MP are around 30-40MB (https://toolstud.io/photo/megapixel.php?width=6016&height=4016 https://toolstud.io/photo/megapixel.php?width=6016&height=40...) and at 20FPS you're above 1Gbps (which a crowded wireless network certainly can't handle). Add those bandwidth requirements to some of the real-time workflows professionals engage in today (see http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a9/sony-a9A.HTM http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a9/sony-a9A.HTM and the comments around 11:53) such as: "first Sony camera with an ethernet port. Have to be real time. Shows, presidential debates, every shot I took went right out onto the network as soon as I shot it." and "for major UFC events, it’s vital to be able to do a live workflow, where images are constantly going back to an edit station and go out to the world immediately. Not only the ethernet, but the wireless is key for social media outfits all over the world." and ethernet makes sense.
- keymone 10y ago
  usb 3 is 5Gbps, thunderbolt is 10Gbps, thunderbolt 3 is 40Gbps. i don't think it makes sense to put ethernet ports on anything smaller than a rack blade.
  - djrogers 10y ago
    If you're suggesting they went with a USB or TB ethernet adapter instead, think about the complexity of supporting the numerous available NIC chipsets on something like a camera...
    - monort 10y ago
      There is a Linux inside Sony Alpha. No problem with drivers :)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - gregmac 10y ago
    They can also only go 5m, 3m and 3m, respectively, before interfacing to a computer (which then uses ethernet to go somewhere else anyway). Ethernet makes sense if you consider that images are going straight from the camera to the control room (which is hundreds of feet away, and possibly parked outside in a truck), and that there's likely already network infrastructure (switches and cabling) in place for dozens of other reasons.
  - justin66 10y ago
    Ethernet provides (close to) the advertised bandwidth without any fuss and is compatible with everything. Contrast with the others you listed.
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    I do. It's increasingly common to have a rolling NAS on film sets and being able to hook up the camera and storage with an ethernet cable is a no brainer for many productions. Time is money and video workflows have historically been a logistical nightmare. Generally when you're shooting narrative on a pro camera you have to stop every 20-30 minutes to swap media. I would much rather string a cable and have one less technical person and two more people in the art department for the same money. Media management is a huge bottleneck, not to mention a source of continuous low-grade anxiety.
dluan 10y ago
Sony is better at being Apple than Apple is.

PuffinBlue 10y ago

Wow. That's an impressive spec list for a body this size. I don't see anything about how weather sealed it is and the press release doesn't mention it either.

Veratyr 10y ago
I think the press event is still in progress, we'll be finding out more as the day goes on.

vvanders 10y ago

Impressive camera for sure but something missing in a couple articles I've seen on this is glossing over the fact that Nikon/Canon have a huge library of lenses. With photography it's largely the lens that drives the photo(which makes sense when you think of photographing in terms of painting with light). Until you see Sony breaking out the 300mm F2.8, 400mm F2.8, 600mm F4 and others you won't see much pick-up on the segment they're targeting(1DX, etc). For instance a 400mm F2.8 goes for 2x the cost of this camera alone(~$10k). There's adapters for EF->Sony, however they're hit and miss on functionality and focusing speed.

ghaff 10y ago
Sony's been doing an impressive job. But another factor that dovetails with Canon/Nikon system investments is that all of these big DSLRs have features that are already well past the point of diminishing returns for a lot of people. I have a Canon 5Diii and I have no urge to upgrade it much less switch systems. (To be honest, I don't even use it all that much because I have other cameras that are far smaller and do a perfectly adequate job for most things.)
PuffinBlue 10y ago
Sony has a 300mm f2.8 and 500mm f4, so it's not a million miles behind. The system as a whole is getting pretty compelling TBH. Using a camera that can focus track and calculate exposure at over 20fps with nearly 700 auto focus points across almost the whole frame would for sure let me capture stuff I couldn't on any other camera. And that's not to mention the silent shutter at this speed - I could literally capture photos I wouldn't be allowed to (golf anyone???) with a mechanical and noisy shutter. Even if I did it on a 500mm f4 and cropped in some of those 24mp! I'm a Nikon guy (well, I did shoot with the old a900 and some Canon/Olympus stuff too) and I'd certainly consider working very hard to deal with any lens short comings with a camera this capable.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
wklauss 10y ago
OTOH, being a mirrorless system you can use an adapter for pretty much any lens ever made, not only Canon but any possible glass that has been used in the modern history of photography. And some times without any significant loss of functionality. But yeah, its true. Professionals take to stick to brands for a lot of reasons. Investment already made in lenses, repairability, how easy is to find a colleague during a job that can loan you some missing equipment, etc... Sony is not going to conquer the professional market overnight, granted, but it's important to have this camera in their catalog to start moving things in that direction.

randiantech 10y ago

Impressive hardware indeed, but price is prohibitive (at least for me!) right now: usd4500

cs702 10y ago

DSLRs with mirror mechanisms are now officially a technological dead-end. This new camera does things that are not possible with DSLR bodies, including SILENT 20FPS shooting, WITHOUT BLACKOUT, WITHOUT DISTORTION FROM ROLLING SHUTTER, and with SHUTTER SPEED UP TO 1/32000 -- very impressive. Sports and other pro photographers that need high-end performance will take notice. Mirrorless cameras are now clearly the future of pro photography. Canon and Nikon should be very worried. EDIT: Here's a good first look explaining the importance of all new features: http://briansmith.com/sony-a9-camera-fe-100-400mm-gm-lens-review/ http://briansmith.com/sony-a9-camera-fe-100-400mm-gm-lens-re...

sp332 10y ago
Don't Canon and Nikon make pretty good mirrorless cameras too?
- zokier 10y ago
  Not really. Canon mirrorless is ok, I suppose, but very much a "also-ran" and "too little, too late" in the very competitive market. Nikon mirrorless are just not very good (too small sensor for a start..)
  - Matthias247 10y ago
    I have a Nikon 1 and I'm pretty satisfied with it. Key features for me were small package size, low weight and fast shooting (10/20fps with phase-detection autofocus). My use-case is being able to take some decent bike-action pictures with a camera that easily fits in a backpack. For other usecases the offerings from the other brands might be a better fit.
  - hengheng 10y ago
    Canon's EF-m lenses are a fraction of the cost of Sony's. Sony have been pushing price points for a while to make sure they are at the top of the range, just slightly below boutique manufacturers. Meanwhile canon has a lot of experience building to a price point ... Interesting to see they chose to go down that route with their mirrorless system.

Veratyr 10y ago

Sony's product page (has full specs): https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-9 https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-camera...

bambax 10y ago

>... maintaining the professional atmosphere in a place like the White House But what about the clown in the center of the frame though.

mabbo 10y ago

Not being a camera guy, can someone explain to me why all these stats are awesome? I mean, they sound awesome, but I'm a sucker for people telling me things are awesome.

Finnucane 10y ago
Now people with more money than sense will be able to take bad photos faster than ever before. After autonomous cars will come autonomous cameras--the camera will be a better photographer than you are, so it won't need you to actually operate it. It'll just fly around on a drone. Have its own gallery shows. Win Pulitzers.
visarga 10y ago
It's a large format sensor (35mm) which captures a lot of light which means that it works better in low light, without flash. Being mirrorless makes the lenses cheaper because of optics reasons (pro lenses tend to be very expensive).
- foldr 10y ago
  >Being mirrorless makes the lenses cheaper because of optics reasons Hmm, it should theoretically make wide angle lenses a bit cheaper because they won't have to use retrofocus designs. But I think the actual price of the lens is going to be determined by what pro photographers are used to paying for fancy wide angle lenses.
  - vr46 10y ago
    They'll be smaller and probably better, but not cheaper :)
- wl 10y ago
  35mm is full frame, not large format. Large format starts at 4"x5". Very few large format sensors have ever been built.
ckurose 10y ago
What this article totally misses is that this is Sony's flagship offering not for all professional photographers, but specifically for professional SPORTS photographers. Sports photographers need super fast continuous shooting so you can get 20 shots of that epic catch in one shutter press and choose the best one. Likewise 1/32,000th of a sec shutter speed is twice as fast as most cameras' 1/8,000th of a sec fastest shutter speed, which helps to freeze quick motion. The high number of AF points is a sports feature too - one area that mirrorless still significantly lags traditional DSLRs is that their AF systems are not as fast as the type used in DSLRs, which have dedicated AF sensors (mirrorless does AF off the imaging sensor), so a ton of AF points is one way mirrorless tries to narrow the AF gap.

neom 10y ago

About 10 years ago when this high fps stuff started to become better and better in dslrs, all the sports shooters had a freak out because they got worried that their license fees would go up because events would charge them for the motion picture license not the still license. I don’t know if this ended up becoming true but it was all the talk at WEVA for years. Sony have always made great cameras, unfortunately their primes don't hold a candle to Canon or Nikon. Anyone who reaaalllly cares about this feature is probably shooting fixed (tho I've been out of the industry a long time I'm sure it's changed)

vr46 10y ago
I thought Carl Zeiss made their lenses? Not checked, but I have sworn by Zeiss for twenty years in their various mounts and incarnations.
- neom 10y ago
  iirc, Sony does it's own manufacturing but works with Zeiss on most of it's lenses. In my personal opinion, and really I think it's pretty wanky to debate this stuff too much, but personally I like the fluorite UD glass from Canon, imo, has the best colour clarity and definition.
  - petre 10y ago
    Canon glass is fine if you're a professional, Zeiss and Leica is superlative but it still depends on focal lengths. I still have my Contax mount 50/1.4, because nothing save for some Leica lenses exhibit the same qualities on 35mm format. If I were a sports photographer I'd probably go with Canon though.
- redial 10y ago
  Not all Sony lenses are Zeiss, only the most expensive ones. Most of the low end lenses are just Sony branded.
- azhenley 10y ago
  Not all of them. Sony designs/manufactures some (known as the Sony FE and E lines) and Zeiss designs/manufactures some (Zeiss Batis, Loxia, and Touit lines). To make this even more confusing, some are designed by Zeiss but manufactured by Sony and carry both of their logos (nicknamed Zony; e.g., Sony Zeiss Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8)

appleflaxen 10y ago

I will never forgive Sony for the rootkit they installed on my computer.

anigbrowl 10y ago
That was 12 years ago. The only reason to mention it now is to signal your nerd power level; if you actually care about this you're being absurdly petty. Just for context, Pacific Gas and Electric (the primary power utility firm in northern California) killed 8 people and destroyed an entire neighborhood a few years back due to their failure to repair a gas pipeline that they knew to be defective. An unwelcome root kit on your computer is a Bad Thing that it's reasonable to complain about at the time it happens, but as injustices go it's pretty minor. If you're still holding a grudge about it over a decade later then you've been enjoying a very sheltered life.

zokier 10y ago

While 20fps makes nice headline, it is imho the least interesting spec of this camera. Some things I find interesting: * Low light performance and dynamic range. Sony bodies have traditionally been good at this (see for example https://vimeo.com/99893160 https://vimeo.com/99893160), I hope the trend continues. * Video features. They say 4k full frame video, which sounds nice, but subsampling the sensor inherently comes with some compromises, which might be even exaggerated in 1080p mode. * There is more to video than just resolution; does it have any high-framerate modes, what sort of video formats and color profiles does it support etc etc. * The 5 stop equivalent image stabilization sounds impressive. Admittedly I haven't followed the state of art that closely, but I imagined IS being typically closer to 2-3 stop eqv. * 1/32k shutter speed seems also quite fast. I wonder what sort of new photos such fast shutter speeds enable. * Wasn't it Sony that "innovated" a lossy compressed RAW format? What sort of impact does that have on this camera? ... and probably some more.

Veratyr 10y ago
> They say 4k full frame video, which sounds nice, but subsampling the sensor inherently comes with some compromises, which might be even exaggerated in 1080p mode. They don't necessarily have to subsample, they may be able to supersample. I believe Panasonic's GH5 does this. > does it have any high-framerate modes, what sort of video formats and color profiles does it support etc etc. Full specs, including shooting modes, are here: https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-9/specifications https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-camera... In terms of high-framerate, it doesn't have anything for 4K but goes up to 120fps in 1080p. Can't see anything about chroma subsampling or bit-depth other than it only outputting 8-bit 4:2:2 through HDMI. > Wasn't it Sony that "innovated" a lossy compressed RAW format? What sort of impact does that have on this camera? Yep, though it appears that like the A7RII, you'll be able to disable it. It seems that doing so will roughly halve the number of frames you can take in a single burst and drop the max capture framerate to 12.
pvdebbe 10y ago
> * 1/32k shutter speed seems also quite fast. I wonder what sort of new photos such fast shutter speeds enable. You can shoot with wide apertures in direct sunlight without using ND filters. Fuji has had this for years now, with much more rolling shutter of course. Now that I wrote that out, doesn't sound like much. Still, it's been nice not to play around with the filters.

dluan 10y ago

So what exactly does Sony have to do to become king of cameras? This is a very good argument.

redial 10y ago
Lenses, they need killer lenses people are willing to switch systems for. That and better battery life.
- deleted 10y ago
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old-gregg 10y ago
Well, Sony has been the "co-king" of consumer P&S cameras for a long time, but those are in steep decline due to ever increasing capabilities of smart phones, where Sony (unlike Canon or Nikon) continues to make money with their Xperia line. On the high end, they lack one key "ingredient" in my opinion which can be best described by one word: ecosystem. Ask any serious Nikon user and they'll show you a $15K collection of lenses, flashes and even old film bodies with high sentimental value to them. They will also talk for hours about "Nikon approach to color" if you'll listen. Competing against this takes time: Sony needs more lenses, more famous photographers walk around sporting their gear, consistently communicated "vision", etc. This can also be a tough cultural problem to overcome. I've been shooting Canon on and off most of my life, Nikon gear is very similar in that it feels like a computerized camera system, i.e. a computer is an add-on to an excellent camera helping you take better pictures. Fuji cameras have the same feel. But every time I try Sony it feels like mm... hard to explain, maybe like a "computer which happens to take photos"? Very subjective, of course, but since you asked. ;)
- dluan 10y ago
  I've tried the fujifilm mirrorless cameras, and they've also had that feeling of portable camera with a computer attached. I've personally always loved the feeling of a computer engine driving the sony camera (a7 evf is wonderful). If mirrorless is the future, and partially what allowed Sony to make 1/32000 possible, then does that mean Canon/Nikon are playing catch up?

gfdgfdg 10y ago

But 20 fps isn't that much. Why not 60 or 120?

rconti 10y ago
Because the data rate on 6000x4000 pixels uncompressed times 60 would be insane? 4k video is only 4096x2160.
mikeyouse 10y ago
> But 20 fps isn't that much. 20FPS is insane on a 24MP full-frame camera. Each RAW is 6000x4000.. The image buffer can handle 241 pictures, so you can basically capture 12 seconds of 6k video. To give some context, this camera can easily record 120FPS 1080P video with full autofocusing. It can record no-crop 4K video which means if you take a video of a scene, you can grab a full 24MP still from the video. 1080P video has 2 million pixels, 4K video has 8.3 million pixels, burst mode on this camera has 24 million pixels per still.

rb808 10y ago

Nikon and Canon dominate the pro space for more than just the tech specs of their products. The support is amazing - check out this blog article to see. I thought B&H was close to photographers heaven but I've never seen anything like this. http://blog.jeffcable.com/2016/08/a-very-rare-look-inside-canons.html http://blog.jeffcable.com/2016/08/a-very-rare-look-inside-ca... Producing the camera that has the best specs doesn't necessarily mean that pros will be using it. (Depends on the size of the gap of course)

pinum 10y ago

If we imagine for a moment that it were 24 or 30fps continuous- could that output be used for video as an alternative to the designated video modes? What would make the results different?

dragonwriter 10y ago
The fact that 24/30 < 60fps, which is the video frame rate (and autofocus rate) in 4K video mode.
beschizza 10y ago
Each frame would be 6000x4000 pixels -- 6K with a 3x2 aspect ratio. 20 fps is almost there (playing at 24fps is a 12% speedup), but how long can you practically record at that speed?
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  The image buffer is 241 pictures so it'd be about 12 seconds of recording at 20FPS.
anigbrowl 10y ago
Yes, absolutely. The difference would be in the resolution (stills are typically way higher than video), and the fact that you'd need to do your video playback offline. You could use it for video now at 20fps (anything over 18 is adequate if you don't mind it looking a bit stylized) but you're likely to run into data bottlenecks...or maybe not, Sony has historically been pretty good at handling high data rates and the removable media themselves are constantly improving sustainable write speeds.
Veratyr 10y ago
Yes. Doing so would put the files in the same class as the CinemaDNG output by Blackmagic Design's cameras or RED's R3D. The difference is similar to the difference between JPEG and RAW in stills. You get a lot more flexibility in post and can usually capture a little more dynamic range. There's a video comparing RAW video to H.264 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkSYIzCgdIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkSYIzCgdIk

magic5227 10y ago

Where does the A7r II / A7S fit in with this? Are they considered a prosumer version of this camera? And if so, what makes this more professional, the FPS?

azhenley 10y ago
Yes, the A7 models seem to be more geared for prosumers or non-sports/wildlife professionals (e.g., for portraits I'd still lean towards the A7Rii). The A9 is more "professional" because of its dual memory card slots, supposedly much better AF, FPS, battery life, and controls (joystick).
imjk 10y ago
Not an exact parallel but I see the A7R as the MD Mark III and the a9 as the 1DX.
- magic5227 10y ago
  That's interesting considering so many professionals use the Mark III. I recall seeing an article that the NYTimes staff all used Mark II's at one point.

bitL 10y ago

If they finally made auto-focus acceptable, I am willing to dump D750 as my main hyperlapse-creation tool and buy Alpha 9 for travel. Mirrorless always had issues with focus, if the improved quantum efficiency of the sensor allows better focus, they have a winner.

pklausler 10y ago

Has Sony fixed their ARW raw file compression story yet? Last I checked, you had a choice between a huge uncompressed raw and a lossy compression technique susceptible to posterization artifacts on high-contrast vertical edges.

jumpkickhit 10y ago

I'm excited for the A9"S" I guess, the super low-light version of this. Can't afford either one though, but I can dream.

gseymour2 10y ago

One complaint I read about Sony mirrorless is a greater tendency to have dust problems due to lack of a mirror. Anyone familiar with that issue and know if it is a real problem?

dragonwriter 10y ago
Lack of a mirror shouldn't affect that; the fact that it is shutterless (which doesn't require being mirrorless; there have been shutterless DSLRs) might.

alkonaut 10y ago

Is this a successor to the 7-series cameras, or a step above?

deleted 10y ago
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