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How do you define "okay with it"? I think you're purely looking at the it from an economic exchange / personal "consent" perspective, and removed from any sort

How do you define "okay with it"? I think you're purely looking at the it from an economic exchange / personal "consent" perspective, and removed from any sort of greater societal or economic context. > f the "young, lithe, Thai girl" (what a very creepy way to put it) is okay with such a (financial or otherwise) arrangement, why should it even concern you? No, what's creepy are the flocks of western men who travel each year to southeast asia for sex. Why not just spend it on local escorts? You ever think of that? Way to resort to ad hominem and totally miss the broader point. Like as if a comment on HN is more creepy than traveling thousands of miles to bed economically disadvantaged women/men/girls/boys. It concerns me because maybe I'm human and not a douche? I hope it concerns you to, but I guess as long as all parties are "okay" with it, anything goes. Fuck the global sex tourism industry, especially in third world countries.

quirkafleeg 9y ago
> No, what's creepy are the flocks of western men who travel each year to southeast asia for sex. What's creepy is visiting the red light areas of Thailand (and other countries around the world), as you admit you do, then protesting how "disgusting" you find it, while acting like you want to save the "young, lithe girls" of Thailand from (other) men. > Why not just spend it on local escorts? You ever think of that? Perhaps they're sexually attracted to people from Thailand? Ever think of that? Why do you visit red light areas in Thailand, rather than ones in your local area, particularly when you claim to be so disgusted by what happens in them? If you're so sure they're exploiting people in Thailand, why don't you care about them exploiting local escorts? And why do you keep talking about Western men? Don't you care about Asian, Arab or Thai men exploiting Thai people? > Way to resort to ad hominem and totally miss the broader point. Like as if a comment on HN is more creepy than traveling thousands of miles to bed economically disadvantaged women/men/girls/boys. Like because you imagine 99% of men (other men, of course, not you) go to Thailand for that reason it makes you and your choice of words, young, lithe Thai girls, not creepy.
- ithinkinstereo 9y ago
  > What's creepy is visiting the red light areas of Thailand (and other countries around the world), as you admit you do, then protesting how "disgusting" you find it, while acting like you want to save the "young, lithe girls" of Thailand from (other) men. You're mad and projecting. I must have touched a nerve, since you keep on resorting to ad hominem attacks to advocate for sex tourism. You don't need to explicitly visit the red light district in Thailand, since it's literally everywhere. Stay at any nice hotel and the moment you walk out random pimps and sex show operators will hit you up. Sit in the lobby and watch as all the old, fat, western tourists walk in with young Thai ladies. In Thailand, the sex scene is literally at every corner. You must have never been, because it's literally _everywhere_. > Perhaps they're sexually attracted to people from Thailand? Ever think of that? Why do you visit red light areas in Thailand, rather than ones in your local area, particularly when you claim to be so disgusted by what happens in them? Again, you're projecting. > If you're so sure they're exploiting people in Thailand, why don't you care about them exploiting local escorts? And why do you keep talking about Western men? Don't you care about Asian, Arab or Thai men exploiting Thai people? You really don't see the differences - and the social/racial/economic implications - of western, sex tourism? You're also projecting again - I never made any comments to condone local sexual exploitation - you're just scrambling to find any flimsy rhetorical ledge to hold onto. > Like because you imagine 99% of men (other men, of course, not you) go to Thailand for that reason it makes you and your choice of words, young, lithe Thai girls, not creepy. I've never visited Thailand, or any country, for sexual tourism / red-light scene. You're making assumptions and projecting because I dare to compare the scene in SE Asia to the West. There are plenty of documentaries, news articles, and general media/anecdotes online to make the comparison. You don't like that I call out western sex tourists for what they are (perhaps because you are one) and so you're resorting to silly attacks to deflect. That you're more creeped out by my description of the average western sexpat / thai escort pairing, which objectively, sure is a little bit creepy but 100% accurate, rather than the actual sexualploitation is pretty telling.
  - quirkafleeg 9y ago
    > You don't need to explicitly visit the red light district in Thailand Then why do you do it? > since it's literally everywhere [...] literally at every corner [...] it's literally _everywhere_ Maybe you should have a lie down. > old, fat, western tourists walk in with young Thai ladies Why does it matter to you what two strangers are doing? Jealous of the old fat guys? Angry that the "young Thai ladies" aren't with you instead? > Again, you're projecting. No, I was asking you why you visit red light areas when you pretend to be disgusted by them. A question you continue to avoid answering for some reason. > You really don't see the differences - and the social/racial/economic implications - of western, sex tourism? No. And if you could explain why being raped or abused by Arabs or Asians is somehow better than by "Westerners", you'd be telling me, instead of asking me. > You don't like that I call out western sex tourists for what they are (perhaps because you are one) and so you're resorting to silly attacks to deflect. What, like "perhaps because you are one"? You're not convincing anyone with your pretend disgust at sex tourism when you're absolutely obsessed by it, seeing it "literally everywhere" and seeking it out by visiting red light areas. > That you're more creeped out by my description of the average western sexpat / thai escort pairing, which objectively, sure is a little bit creepy but 100% accurate, rather than the actual sexualploitation is pretty telling. The fact that you don't see what's creepy, if not outright sick, about describing people you consider to be victims of sexual exploitation as "young, lithe girls" is what's telling.
- 3131s 9y ago
  You clearly don't live in SEA. These girls are frequently abused by the shithead white supremacists that come here in droves. They wouldn't choose this arrangement if they had any other decent options on the table. Exactly how much time have you spent in SEA? Do you speak a native language of one of these countries? How many prostitutes in these countries have you talked to about this? I live in Cambodia, and you are either deeply unaware of what's going on or you are intentionally misrepresenting the situation. I am all for legal prostitution, and I have no problem with it as a profession when men and women enter into it out of their own free will. But that's not the case in SEA. The reality is that many of these girls have been getting raped since they were little children, and now they're abused filthy geriatrics who succeeded only in being born in a rich country.
  - ithinkinstereo 9y ago
    Yes this is the point I'm trying to make. Anyone who has ever traveled in SE Asia - even to just the most touristy of sites - cannot avoid the rampant sex tourism. It's literally everywhere and frankly none of the sexpats have any shame about it. As I've argued already, it's absolutely _disgusting_.
  - papabrown 9y ago
    Okay, I'll bite. I've lived in Thailand and I speak okay Thai. I can't speak for all of SEA but I can tell you that the girls come looking for jobs in the sex industry in Thailand. People don't have to traffic them or anything like that. It's a f'd up socioeconomic situation there. According to Thai tradition it is the job of the children to take care of the parents. Many Thais have children the same way people plan their retirement. If you're lucky, your parents are good people who have modest wants and needs and are happy if you go to Bangkok or Chiang Mai or Phuket and get a job in a factory or in a restaurant and send home a few hundred baht a month. That's if you're lucky. Chances are, one or both of your parents are either alcoholics, problem gamblers, or morally bankrupt (often you hit the trifecta). They send their daughter down south to make some money. Oh, but then the problems start coming in. Daddy punched a cop and they're going to kill him unless he comes up with 3,000 baht. Mommy owes the local mafia guy 30,000 baht in gambling debt. Surely someone needs a new motorcycle back home. That puts the pressure on the girls to find ways to make more money that can ever possibly be made working a legit job. So they start calling old friends from back in the village that they remember coming home for Songkran dressed like a whore and asking if she can help her get a job. Initially, she goes into it thinking that maybe she'll meet a nice white guy who will solve all her money problems. But that dream gets dashed pretty quickly and soon she learns that it's all about the baht. She starts learning all the tricks. How to rotate five or six tourists making them all think that she's in love with them and she's got all of them sending her money to take care of her family. Pretty soon she's clocking 5x - 10x what a university educated Thai makes. She has the newest iPhone, is spending money like it's going out of style to impress all of her friends, and when she goes home there will certainly be grand gestures involving her giving large amounts of money to her family. Because money equals power in Thailand in a way most foreigners don't quite understand, many times this is the girl's way of gaining respect. Everyone in her village or on her soi will know she bought her mother a beautiful gold chain and everyone will pretend that she's not a whore. Eventually, she'll age. The number of guys willing to send her money will decline. She'll start looking around for someone to bleed for as long as they'll keep giving her money. BTW, these girls know most young guys are broke. I don't care if you look like Brad Pitt, they want the old geezer who's playing the back nine of his life. That's the guy who they want to con into moving up to Issan and buying a huge house for the two of them. And since in Thailand, foreigners can't own land, it's really her house which she'll get when the geezer kicks the bucket. And if he doesn't die soon enough, she'll just have some family members boot him out of the house since he has zero legal rights to it even though he paid for it. Oh, and the other reason they like old guys, old guys are less likely to trade up in a few years. Young guys have a reputation for being less than faithful and that threatens the money supply. So, many of them reason that they would rather get an old guy, take care of him sexually, and not have to worry about him deciding to wander in a few years when she's starting to age a bit. I mean, would they love a rich Brad Pitt that was 100% faithful? Of course. Come on. But they're very pragmatic as well. Marriage and relationships are just as much about security as they are about love. How do I know? I go up country every year for Songkran. I can spot the Bangkok whores a mile away in Big C. We have a hi-so whore who lives down the soi from my wife's family. She's hi-so because she works in Singapore, not like the regular prostitutes. Oh, every Songkran their family goes up and down the soi showing off everything their daughter has given to her parents. She's bought them cars. Gold. Motorcycles. And everyone on the soi oooohs and aaaaahs over how rich they must be. Meanwhile, me and my wife keep our mouths shut. Well, she does. I laugh my ass off. And when we drive around her hometown, my wife will point out the large extravagant houses and say "Baan Farang" (foreigner home). Not that a foreigner lives there (anymore) but it was built with foreigner money. And yes, in my younger and wilder days before I met my wife, I spent some time talking to gals of this profession. I had many friends in the expat community so knew many of the bar, restaurant, and other business owners. I got to know the girls over many years. I saw how it was all one big circle. Girls would land a big fish and never be seen again. And another girl would be right behind her just starting her career. The reality is that it's way too lucrative for most of them. It's like if a prostitute in the US could make $250,000 a year. How would you ever convince her to give it up and work for $25,000 a year once she's (and her entire family) got the taste for the money? And lest anyone think I'm, disrespecting these gals, I'm not. I just find the whole thing rather comical. Literally, you can take a girl working the bars 20 years ago and walk into a bar on Soi Cowboy today and their life stories are almost identical. I've met multiple generations of the same family in the business. Regardless of how much money they make it never feeds the beast. They waste it on stuff full of immediate gratification and the wheel keeps going round and round. A few make it out. They make some money. They buy a house. They find a nice guy who takes care of them and pays for private school for the children. But those are the exceptions.

quirkafleeg 9y ago

> No, what's creepy are the flocks of western men who travel each year to southeast asia for sex. What's creepy is visiting the red light areas of Thailand (and other countries around the world), as you admit you do, then protesting how "disgusting" you find it, while acting like you want to save the "young, lithe girls" of Thailand from (other) men. > Why not just spend it on local escorts? You ever think of that? Perhaps they're sexually attracted to people from Thailand? Ever think of that? Why do you visit red light areas in Thailand, rather than ones in your local area, particularly when you claim to be so disgusted by what happens in them? If you're so sure they're exploiting people in Thailand, why don't you care about them exploiting local escorts? And why do you keep talking about Western men? Don't you care about Asian, Arab or Thai men exploiting Thai people? > Way to resort to ad hominem and totally miss the broader point. Like as if a comment on HN is more creepy than traveling thousands of miles to bed economically disadvantaged women/men/girls/boys. Like because you imagine 99% of men (other men, of course, not you) go to Thailand for that reason it makes you and your choice of words, young, lithe Thai girls, not creepy.

ithinkinstereo 9y ago
> What's creepy is visiting the red light areas of Thailand (and other countries around the world), as you admit you do, then protesting how "disgusting" you find it, while acting like you want to save the "young, lithe girls" of Thailand from (other) men. You're mad and projecting. I must have touched a nerve, since you keep on resorting to ad hominem attacks to advocate for sex tourism. You don't need to explicitly visit the red light district in Thailand, since it's literally everywhere. Stay at any nice hotel and the moment you walk out random pimps and sex show operators will hit you up. Sit in the lobby and watch as all the old, fat, western tourists walk in with young Thai ladies. In Thailand, the sex scene is literally at every corner. You must have never been, because it's literally _everywhere_. > Perhaps they're sexually attracted to people from Thailand? Ever think of that? Why do you visit red light areas in Thailand, rather than ones in your local area, particularly when you claim to be so disgusted by what happens in them? Again, you're projecting. > If you're so sure they're exploiting people in Thailand, why don't you care about them exploiting local escorts? And why do you keep talking about Western men? Don't you care about Asian, Arab or Thai men exploiting Thai people? You really don't see the differences - and the social/racial/economic implications - of western, sex tourism? You're also projecting again - I never made any comments to condone local sexual exploitation - you're just scrambling to find any flimsy rhetorical ledge to hold onto. > Like because you imagine 99% of men (other men, of course, not you) go to Thailand for that reason it makes you and your choice of words, young, lithe Thai girls, not creepy. I've never visited Thailand, or any country, for sexual tourism / red-light scene. You're making assumptions and projecting because I dare to compare the scene in SE Asia to the West. There are plenty of documentaries, news articles, and general media/anecdotes online to make the comparison. You don't like that I call out western sex tourists for what they are (perhaps because you are one) and so you're resorting to silly attacks to deflect. That you're more creeped out by my description of the average western sexpat / thai escort pairing, which objectively, sure is a little bit creepy but 100% accurate, rather than the actual sexualploitation is pretty telling.
- quirkafleeg 9y ago
  > You don't need to explicitly visit the red light district in Thailand Then why do you do it? > since it's literally everywhere [...] literally at every corner [...] it's literally _everywhere_ Maybe you should have a lie down. > old, fat, western tourists walk in with young Thai ladies Why does it matter to you what two strangers are doing? Jealous of the old fat guys? Angry that the "young Thai ladies" aren't with you instead? > Again, you're projecting. No, I was asking you why you visit red light areas when you pretend to be disgusted by them. A question you continue to avoid answering for some reason. > You really don't see the differences - and the social/racial/economic implications - of western, sex tourism? No. And if you could explain why being raped or abused by Arabs or Asians is somehow better than by "Westerners", you'd be telling me, instead of asking me. > You don't like that I call out western sex tourists for what they are (perhaps because you are one) and so you're resorting to silly attacks to deflect. What, like "perhaps because you are one"? You're not convincing anyone with your pretend disgust at sex tourism when you're absolutely obsessed by it, seeing it "literally everywhere" and seeking it out by visiting red light areas. > That you're more creeped out by my description of the average western sexpat / thai escort pairing, which objectively, sure is a little bit creepy but 100% accurate, rather than the actual sexualploitation is pretty telling. The fact that you don't see what's creepy, if not outright sick, about describing people you consider to be victims of sexual exploitation as "young, lithe girls" is what's telling.
3131s 9y ago
You clearly don't live in SEA. These girls are frequently abused by the shithead white supremacists that come here in droves. They wouldn't choose this arrangement if they had any other decent options on the table. Exactly how much time have you spent in SEA? Do you speak a native language of one of these countries? How many prostitutes in these countries have you talked to about this? I live in Cambodia, and you are either deeply unaware of what's going on or you are intentionally misrepresenting the situation. I am all for legal prostitution, and I have no problem with it as a profession when men and women enter into it out of their own free will. But that's not the case in SEA. The reality is that many of these girls have been getting raped since they were little children, and now they're abused filthy geriatrics who succeeded only in being born in a rich country.
- ithinkinstereo 9y ago
  Yes this is the point I'm trying to make. Anyone who has ever traveled in SE Asia - even to just the most touristy of sites - cannot avoid the rampant sex tourism. It's literally everywhere and frankly none of the sexpats have any shame about it. As I've argued already, it's absolutely _disgusting_.
- papabrown 9y ago
  Okay, I'll bite. I've lived in Thailand and I speak okay Thai. I can't speak for all of SEA but I can tell you that the girls come looking for jobs in the sex industry in Thailand. People don't have to traffic them or anything like that. It's a f'd up socioeconomic situation there. According to Thai tradition it is the job of the children to take care of the parents. Many Thais have children the same way people plan their retirement. If you're lucky, your parents are good people who have modest wants and needs and are happy if you go to Bangkok or Chiang Mai or Phuket and get a job in a factory or in a restaurant and send home a few hundred baht a month. That's if you're lucky. Chances are, one or both of your parents are either alcoholics, problem gamblers, or morally bankrupt (often you hit the trifecta). They send their daughter down south to make some money. Oh, but then the problems start coming in. Daddy punched a cop and they're going to kill him unless he comes up with 3,000 baht. Mommy owes the local mafia guy 30,000 baht in gambling debt. Surely someone needs a new motorcycle back home. That puts the pressure on the girls to find ways to make more money that can ever possibly be made working a legit job. So they start calling old friends from back in the village that they remember coming home for Songkran dressed like a whore and asking if she can help her get a job. Initially, she goes into it thinking that maybe she'll meet a nice white guy who will solve all her money problems. But that dream gets dashed pretty quickly and soon she learns that it's all about the baht. She starts learning all the tricks. How to rotate five or six tourists making them all think that she's in love with them and she's got all of them sending her money to take care of her family. Pretty soon she's clocking 5x - 10x what a university educated Thai makes. She has the newest iPhone, is spending money like it's going out of style to impress all of her friends, and when she goes home there will certainly be grand gestures involving her giving large amounts of money to her family. Because money equals power in Thailand in a way most foreigners don't quite understand, many times this is the girl's way of gaining respect. Everyone in her village or on her soi will know she bought her mother a beautiful gold chain and everyone will pretend that she's not a whore. Eventually, she'll age. The number of guys willing to send her money will decline. She'll start looking around for someone to bleed for as long as they'll keep giving her money. BTW, these girls know most young guys are broke. I don't care if you look like Brad Pitt, they want the old geezer who's playing the back nine of his life. That's the guy who they want to con into moving up to Issan and buying a huge house for the two of them. And since in Thailand, foreigners can't own land, it's really her house which she'll get when the geezer kicks the bucket. And if he doesn't die soon enough, she'll just have some family members boot him out of the house since he has zero legal rights to it even though he paid for it. Oh, and the other reason they like old guys, old guys are less likely to trade up in a few years. Young guys have a reputation for being less than faithful and that threatens the money supply. So, many of them reason that they would rather get an old guy, take care of him sexually, and not have to worry about him deciding to wander in a few years when she's starting to age a bit. I mean, would they love a rich Brad Pitt that was 100% faithful? Of course. Come on. But they're very pragmatic as well. Marriage and relationships are just as much about security as they are about love. How do I know? I go up country every year for Songkran. I can spot the Bangkok whores a mile away in Big C. We have a hi-so whore who lives down the soi from my wife's family. She's hi-so because she works in Singapore, not like the regular prostitutes. Oh, every Songkran their family goes up and down the soi showing off everything their daughter has given to her parents. She's bought them cars. Gold. Motorcycles. And everyone on the soi oooohs and aaaaahs over how rich they must be. Meanwhile, me and my wife keep our mouths shut. Well, she does. I laugh my ass off. And when we drive around her hometown, my wife will point out the large extravagant houses and say "Baan Farang" (foreigner home). Not that a foreigner lives there (anymore) but it was built with foreigner money. And yes, in my younger and wilder days before I met my wife, I spent some time talking to gals of this profession. I had many friends in the expat community so knew many of the bar, restaurant, and other business owners. I got to know the girls over many years. I saw how it was all one big circle. Girls would land a big fish and never be seen again. And another girl would be right behind her just starting her career. The reality is that it's way too lucrative for most of them. It's like if a prostitute in the US could make $250,000 a year. How would you ever convince her to give it up and work for $25,000 a year once she's (and her entire family) got the taste for the money? And lest anyone think I'm, disrespecting these gals, I'm not. I just find the whole thing rather comical. Literally, you can take a girl working the bars 20 years ago and walk into a bar on Soi Cowboy today and their life stories are almost identical. I've met multiple generations of the same family in the business. Regardless of how much money they make it never feeds the beast. They waste it on stuff full of immediate gratification and the wheel keeps going round and round. A few make it out. They make some money. They buy a house. They find a nice guy who takes care of them and pays for private school for the children. But those are the exceptions.