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Blocks all non-licensed integration with their products (notably iTunes). ?? They blocked Palm devices from masquerading as iPods, but I wasn't aware that a l

Blocks all non-licensed integration with their products (notably iTunes). ?? They blocked Palm devices from masquerading as iPods, but I wasn't aware that a license was needed to read and write to (via AppleScript/COM) iTunes Music Library.xml as Nokia and BB's sync software do. edit: spelling

ryandvm 16y ago
No, you don't need a license to snoop around in the media library, but I'm talking about real interoperability. iTunes won't talk to anything but iOS devices and iOS devices won't talk to anything but iTunes. I don't think they should go out of their way to support foreign devices, but releasing iTunes updates solely to squash Palm's efforts was slapping users in the face.
- tvon 16y ago
  It just doesn't work that way. If Apple allows it and it becomes at all popular, they are stuck in a situation where they either need to support it directly or deal with the predictable outrage from the blogosphere when iTunes X.Y breaks Pre syncing because Palm/HP hasn't updated their hacks yet, or worse they have to deal with people not upgrading iTunes until Palm/HP does update their hacks. All because Palm would rather piggy back on iTunes than write their own playlist manager. Oh, but of course, it's Apple slapping users in the face, those dicks, how dare they. Yeah, that was a bit snarky, but come on...
  - chc 16y ago
    Premise 1: There is a very tiny chance that a future update could break Palm sync but not break compatibility with the legacy iPods that the Palm is simulating Premise 2: This would be undesirable Conclusion: We should avert the risk of breaking the device by breaking the device Doesn't make a lot of sense. The device is broken either way. Anyway, the problem isn't that they don't want to write their own playlist manager — it's that requiring the user to have two music managers (one for the OS and one for the device) is a bad user experience.
    - tvon 16y ago
      > Conclusion: We should avert the risk of breaking the device by breaking the device You break a handful intentionally so you don't have to risk breaking hundreds of thousands unintentionally.
    - Anechoic 16y ago
      it's that requiring the user to have two music managers (one for the OS and one for the device) is a bad user experience. But again, it doesn't have to be that way from a user POV. As far as my E71 is concerned, all my music management is done via iTunes.
      - chc 16y ago
        Really? Within iTunes, how do you choose whether to sync everything automatically or manually select the ones you want?
        Anechoic 16y ago
        You sync playlists to the E71, so you could set up a smart playlist that has everything, or you can use normal (or smart) playlists to select some subset of tracks. Edit: to clarify - when I installed the Nokia software, it asks if I want to sync my music files with iTunes. Upon selecting "yes" it set up a playlist folder in iTunes that gets synced, and the user sets up playlists within that folder to sync to the smartphone.
- Anechoic 16y ago
  I don't know that "real interoperability" is a problem. I plug my Nokia E71 into my Mac, it syncs up my iTunes playlists, I disconnect and go on with my life. Yeah, it goes through Nokia's software running in the background, but that software is running anyway to handle the other Nokia sync operations. With one exception, the user experience is not a whole lot different than syncing with my iPod Classic. The only major exception I notice is that iTunes doesn't have to be running for me to sync my E71.

ryandvm 16y ago

No, you don't need a license to snoop around in the media library, but I'm talking about real interoperability. iTunes won't talk to anything but iOS devices and iOS devices won't talk to anything but iTunes. I don't think they should go out of their way to support foreign devices, but releasing iTunes updates solely to squash Palm's efforts was slapping users in the face.

tvon 16y ago
It just doesn't work that way. If Apple allows it and it becomes at all popular, they are stuck in a situation where they either need to support it directly or deal with the predictable outrage from the blogosphere when iTunes X.Y breaks Pre syncing because Palm/HP hasn't updated their hacks yet, or worse they have to deal with people not upgrading iTunes until Palm/HP does update their hacks. All because Palm would rather piggy back on iTunes than write their own playlist manager. Oh, but of course, it's Apple slapping users in the face, those dicks, how dare they. Yeah, that was a bit snarky, but come on...
- chc 16y ago
  Premise 1: There is a very tiny chance that a future update could break Palm sync but not break compatibility with the legacy iPods that the Palm is simulating Premise 2: This would be undesirable Conclusion: We should avert the risk of breaking the device by breaking the device Doesn't make a lot of sense. The device is broken either way. Anyway, the problem isn't that they don't want to write their own playlist manager — it's that requiring the user to have two music managers (one for the OS and one for the device) is a bad user experience.
  - tvon 16y ago
    > Conclusion: We should avert the risk of breaking the device by breaking the device You break a handful intentionally so you don't have to risk breaking hundreds of thousands unintentionally.
  - Anechoic 16y ago
    it's that requiring the user to have two music managers (one for the OS and one for the device) is a bad user experience. But again, it doesn't have to be that way from a user POV. As far as my E71 is concerned, all my music management is done via iTunes.
    - chc 16y ago
      Really? Within iTunes, how do you choose whether to sync everything automatically or manually select the ones you want?
      - Anechoic 16y ago
        You sync playlists to the E71, so you could set up a smart playlist that has everything, or you can use normal (or smart) playlists to select some subset of tracks. Edit: to clarify - when I installed the Nokia software, it asks if I want to sync my music files with iTunes. Upon selecting "yes" it set up a playlist folder in iTunes that gets synced, and the user sets up playlists within that folder to sync to the smartphone.
Anechoic 16y ago
I don't know that "real interoperability" is a problem. I plug my Nokia E71 into my Mac, it syncs up my iTunes playlists, I disconnect and go on with my life. Yeah, it goes through Nokia's software running in the background, but that software is running anyway to handle the other Nokia sync operations. With one exception, the user experience is not a whole lot different than syncing with my iPod Classic. The only major exception I notice is that iTunes doesn't have to be running for me to sync my E71.