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Reading this made me want to throw up. Absolutely horrible. But then while listening to the video, I realized the recording sounded a lot like what I would he

Reading this made me want to throw up. Absolutely horrible. But then while listening to the video, I realized the recording sounded a lot like what I would hear when my parents beat my siblings/myself as kids for doing something wrong. This made me wonder: Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse? Why does such a large section of society think it's OK to hit your kids and not your spouse? Curious to hear what other people think.

lsc 10y ago
Regardless of your stance on corporal punishment, a parent is in a position of authority over, and responsible for training their children. The relationship between a parent and child is ideally a loving relationship, but it is not a relationship of equals. The parent, culturally and legally, is expected to make decisions in the child's best interest, even, sometimes, when the child disagrees. A child is not an adult. The relationship to a spouse is fundamentally different. In this country, marriage is a union of two equals. You do not give up the legal autonomy granted to you at 18 just because you got married. Most people would find it weird or creepy to find you were using other kinds of punishment on your spouse, even punishments that are uncontroversial when used on children, just because this implies that you are not respecting your spouse as an equal, but instead treating him or her as a child.
- smallgovt 10y ago
  Playing devil's advocate, there are a number of real world examples of relationships with power, authority, equality differentials where we'd still not be comfortable with corporal punishment. For example, teacher/student, employee/boss. After thinking about it more, one rationalization is that we assume it's for the kids' greater good and kids don't know what's best for them while adults do. Of course, one must believe corporal punishment is an effective way to train behavior and the purpose when used is truly to improve the kid's well being.
  - lsc 10y ago
    My only point is that there shouldn't be an authority difference in a spousal relationship.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - sjg007 10y ago
    How about, don't hit anyone, ever? The only reason corporal punishment was used is because it causes an immediate response but that is one driven by fear. It is control by violence which is by definition a form of domestic violence. As a society we only accept it now in situations by law enforcement. But even then that is limited acceptance (for example in the United airlines incident). As a simple example, you don't teach someone to not hit someone by hitting them. Maybe that model was effective as animals but as humans we have much more powerful behavior modification techniques. For example, the only thing that really works to modify behavior and generate long term compliance is positive reinforcement. The science is clear. Kids live in the moment. Reward the behavior you want and ignore the behavior you don't. This works surprisingly well with adults as well.
    - RightMillennial 10y ago
      I know everyone hates anecdotal evidence on HN, but positive reinforcement doesn't work for every child. Negative reinforcement was a requirement for me when I was a kid. Ignoring my dickish behavior to my siblings would have been counter productive. A nice spank or belt to the backside was essential for compliance.
http-teapot 10y ago
> Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse? > Why does such a large section of society think it's OK to hit your kids and not your spouse? It's not OK. Beating your kids is not OK. Beating your wife is not OK. Beating anyone is not OK. Resolving to violence is weak. One of the cases is when adult tries to explain something to kid but kid can't understand. Adult gets frustrated and starts beating kid. I was not a smart kid and my father was not particularly great at explaining things. He never beat me but verbally and vocally felt that way.
- lemonsqueeze 10y ago
  It's only ok when we are beating North Korea
  - sctb 10y ago
    Please stop posting unsubstantively. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
valuearb 10y ago
My dad spanked me with a wooden stick. I think it was good for me.
- rmellow 10y ago
  Why is this downvoted? I know a number of people (at least 5 off the top of my head) who are genuinely thankful for being physically punished as children and claim they are better people for it. This is a legitimate claim. edit: for clarity.
- soupbowl 10y ago
  My dad did the same and i look back at how/why it was done and see no issues.
alasdair_ 10y ago
>Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse? The only time I have ever (and will ever) hit my children is when they are around the toddler age and try to do something very dangerous that I've repeatedly tried to get them not to do. For example: trying to pry the safety cover off of an electrical outlet in order to insert a fork, running towards traffic, pushing their siblings near the top of the stairs etc. A two year old doesn't have the mental ability to fully understand why such things are bad and so in the past I've given them exactly two quick spanks to the bottom so they understand the severity of what they were doing. It's extremely rare that this happens but I'd prefer to do that than risk missing an attempt that could end in disaster. Beating is, of course, always out of line. The difference between this and a spouse is that the spouse is obviously able to make their own decisions.
mvpu 10y ago
I grew up in a culture where it was normal to hit kids. But my parents never hit me. I was just as bad as any other kid in the block. What that taught me is that love and affection are far more powerful than fear. I've never hit my kids and I never will. Every time they do something that makes me really angry, I think of my parents. It's not ok to hit anyone. There's never a valid reason. Most of the time it's your weakness in action.
RightMillennial 10y ago
First of all, not all "hitting" is equal. There is a significant difference between punishment (spanking) and abuse (beating). I got the belt as a child from my father when my mother's time-outs or light spanks weren't enough. I certainly deserved and needed it to correct my behavior. Second, the difference is your spouse is your equal while your children are dependents. You cannot reasonably punish your equal. You can only reason with her. As a parent however, it is your duty to teach, guide, and discipline your children on how to behave. Depending on the child, harsher punishment may be required to ensure the right values are instilled (I certainly needed it).
wieghant 10y ago
Corporal punishment in my opinion is lazy parenting. I've thought about this a lot. My parents divorced early, I was raised by my father. He loved me and my brother no doubt but after a hard days work he had no interest in doing normal parent things - like camping/fishing activities or just spending time with us. We got punished when we screwed up. Sometimes unjustly, like him having heard rumors and acting on them. If he had spent more time with us growing up rather than watching TV he would have known our character. I would of appreciated it a lot more if he had bothered to wither us down with kindness and patience. Now that things are a lot better between us and i'm a working adult, corporal punishment is one of my dads regrets.

lsc 10y ago

Regardless of your stance on corporal punishment, a parent is in a position of authority over, and responsible for training their children. The relationship between a parent and child is ideally a loving relationship, but it is not a relationship of equals. The parent, culturally and legally, is expected to make decisions in the child's best interest, even, sometimes, when the child disagrees. A child is not an adult. The relationship to a spouse is fundamentally different. In this country, marriage is a union of two equals. You do not give up the legal autonomy granted to you at 18 just because you got married. Most people would find it weird or creepy to find you were using other kinds of punishment on your spouse, even punishments that are uncontroversial when used on children, just because this implies that you are not respecting your spouse as an equal, but instead treating him or her as a child.

smallgovt 10y ago
Playing devil's advocate, there are a number of real world examples of relationships with power, authority, equality differentials where we'd still not be comfortable with corporal punishment. For example, teacher/student, employee/boss. After thinking about it more, one rationalization is that we assume it's for the kids' greater good and kids don't know what's best for them while adults do. Of course, one must believe corporal punishment is an effective way to train behavior and the purpose when used is truly to improve the kid's well being.
- lsc 10y ago
  My only point is that there shouldn't be an authority difference in a spousal relationship.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sjg007 10y ago
  How about, don't hit anyone, ever? The only reason corporal punishment was used is because it causes an immediate response but that is one driven by fear. It is control by violence which is by definition a form of domestic violence. As a society we only accept it now in situations by law enforcement. But even then that is limited acceptance (for example in the United airlines incident). As a simple example, you don't teach someone to not hit someone by hitting them. Maybe that model was effective as animals but as humans we have much more powerful behavior modification techniques. For example, the only thing that really works to modify behavior and generate long term compliance is positive reinforcement. The science is clear. Kids live in the moment. Reward the behavior you want and ignore the behavior you don't. This works surprisingly well with adults as well.
  - RightMillennial 10y ago
    I know everyone hates anecdotal evidence on HN, but positive reinforcement doesn't work for every child. Negative reinforcement was a requirement for me when I was a kid. Ignoring my dickish behavior to my siblings would have been counter productive. A nice spank or belt to the backside was essential for compliance.

http-teapot 10y ago

> Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse? > Why does such a large section of society think it's OK to hit your kids and not your spouse? It's not OK. Beating your kids is not OK. Beating your wife is not OK. Beating anyone is not OK. Resolving to violence is weak. One of the cases is when adult tries to explain something to kid but kid can't understand. Adult gets frustrated and starts beating kid. I was not a smart kid and my father was not particularly great at explaining things. He never beat me but verbally and vocally felt that way.

lemonsqueeze 10y ago
It's only ok when we are beating North Korea
- sctb 10y ago
  Please stop posting unsubstantively. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

valuearb 10y ago

My dad spanked me with a wooden stick. I think it was good for me.

rmellow 10y ago
Why is this downvoted? I know a number of people (at least 5 off the top of my head) who are genuinely thankful for being physically punished as children and claim they are better people for it. This is a legitimate claim. edit: for clarity.
soupbowl 10y ago
My dad did the same and i look back at how/why it was done and see no issues.

alasdair_ 10y ago

>Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse? The only time I have ever (and will ever) hit my children is when they are around the toddler age and try to do something very dangerous that I've repeatedly tried to get them not to do. For example: trying to pry the safety cover off of an electrical outlet in order to insert a fork, running towards traffic, pushing their siblings near the top of the stairs etc. A two year old doesn't have the mental ability to fully understand why such things are bad and so in the past I've given them exactly two quick spanks to the bottom so they understand the severity of what they were doing. It's extremely rare that this happens but I'd prefer to do that than risk missing an attempt that could end in disaster. Beating is, of course, always out of line. The difference between this and a spouse is that the spouse is obviously able to make their own decisions.

mvpu 10y ago

I grew up in a culture where it was normal to hit kids. But my parents never hit me. I was just as bad as any other kid in the block. What that taught me is that love and affection are far more powerful than fear. I've never hit my kids and I never will. Every time they do something that makes me really angry, I think of my parents. It's not ok to hit anyone. There's never a valid reason. Most of the time it's your weakness in action.

RightMillennial 10y ago

First of all, not all "hitting" is equal. There is a significant difference between punishment (spanking) and abuse (beating). I got the belt as a child from my father when my mother's time-outs or light spanks weren't enough. I certainly deserved and needed it to correct my behavior. Second, the difference is your spouse is your equal while your children are dependents. You cannot reasonably punish your equal. You can only reason with her. As a parent however, it is your duty to teach, guide, and discipline your children on how to behave. Depending on the child, harsher punishment may be required to ensure the right values are instilled (I certainly needed it).

wieghant 10y ago

Corporal punishment in my opinion is lazy parenting. I've thought about this a lot. My parents divorced early, I was raised by my father. He loved me and my brother no doubt but after a hard days work he had no interest in doing normal parent things - like camping/fishing activities or just spending time with us. We got punished when we screwed up. Sometimes unjustly, like him having heard rumors and acting on them. If he had spent more time with us growing up rather than watching TV he would have known our character. I would of appreciated it a lot more if he had bothered to wither us down with kindness and patience. Now that things are a lot better between us and i'm a working adult, corporal punishment is one of my dads regrets.