7 ms·

I've seen this complaint several times, but personally have yet to see any comments attributing the disaster to Theranos's founder being a woman.

by cjf4 9y ago

Mz 9y ago
And, yet, her catastrophe and the fact that it is founded by a woman gets vastly more press than any female successes. So, one must wonder why that is. And my feeling is that it is a form of sexism and the subtext is "See, this is why you shouldn't put a woman in charge." Also, at this point, there are six comments refuting what I said. Why is that? If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error? <-- Methinks thou doth protest too much.
- yumyai 9y ago
  "If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error?" Because it is wrong?
  - Mz 9y ago
    Oh, and in addition to all the downvotes and the pile on, you needed to create a brand new account to join the pile on. But, sure, I am just a vitriolic, hysterical woman who is oversensitive. I couldn't possibly have a valid point or concern.
    - yumyai 9y ago
      Thank you, I couldn't phrase it better even if I try.
    - cblock811 9y ago
      Seems like you have a martyr complex. You're fighting against something that doesn't exist. Nobody here is out to get you.
      - Mz 9y ago
        Creating a new account to attack someone is a violation of the rules and a nasty move and suggests, yeah, whoever did it is actively hostile to me. Me recognizing that fact and not liking it is not me having a martyr complex. Edit: If you do not have "show dead" on, you may be missing the flagged to death other comment made by their account. If so, that may be skewing your perception.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - lawnchair_larry 9y ago
      Why is it that you cannot simply be wrong on one particular comment, rather than be wrong, vitriolic, hysterical, ovsersensitive, and incapable of any valid point? You're imposing a false dichotomy here. Being wrong doesn't include all of these offensive insults for anybody else. Why is it different for you?
- darawk 9y ago
  I think a large part of the initial hype and optimism about Theranos was that its founder was female. People were excited to have a female Steve Jobs type figure, and saw her as an inspiration. I think those same people are now disappointed. But personally I haven't seen anyone blaming her femininity for this happening. There's certainly plenty of instances of men doing this. To the extent that her gender has any fault in this, its in creating an additional layer of premature hype/attention around her company.
  - Mz 9y ago
    This is how I ended my initial comment: But, geez, I hate the idea that there is lava-like splash back spattering all other women in the world who are trying to be taken seriously. Why is this such a terrible thing to express that so many people need to come down on me for feeling this way? If you were, say, a black guy concerned about some black guy getting enormous bad press and how that impacts blacks, would that merit this kind of dismissive pile on and massive downvoting? And if it did, would you think it only proved your point that racism and bad press is a real concern? And I apologize for aiming this at you. I am doing so because you seem to have the most evenhanded reply here so far. So it isn't intended to be ugly to you per se.
    - Helmet 9y ago
      If I was black and that black guy was getting bad press simply for being black, I would be concerned. If he was getting bad press because he did something stupid/unlawful/unethical/etc I would not be concerned because why in the world would I be? It's actually racist for you to insinuate that his blackness would be a factor at all. This all reminds me of the Erlich / Dinesh racist scene in Silicon Valley - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSzmVFF58Mo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSzmVFF58Mo
    - darawk 9y ago
      > Why is this such a terrible thing to express that so many people need to come down on me for feeling this way? If you were, say, a black guy concerned about some black guy getting enormous bad press and how that impacts blacks, would that merit this kind of dismissive pile on and massive downvoting? I'm not sure exactly how to respond to that. I'm slightly confused I guess as to why you feel people are coming down on you or dismissing you. To me, HN is a place where we all discuss our ideas about things and try to achieve a sort of collective consensus about the world. We certainly don't (and shouldn't!) all agree about everything, but we expose our ideas to one another in an attempt to improve our collective comprehension of the world around us. When I respond to a comment like yours, i'm not (usually) intending to attack it or tear it down - at least not in an aggressive way. I thought your point of view was interesting and worth responding to with my own. By this mechanism of back and forth, ideally we'd come to a shared understanding of what's happening in this situation. I find that process to be enjoyable and enlightening, which is why I responded to your comment. > And if it did, would you think it only proved your point that racism and bad press is a real concern? I think sexism is absolutely real and is absolutely a real concern. It's just that I have not perceived sexism in the response to this particular situation. However, part of my reason for replying to your comment was to try to better understand why it is that you do perceive it that way. There may be some article or set of comments you've seen that I have not that might change my view. Or maybe we simply saw the same things and interpreted them differently. Either way, i'm curious to understand that divergence, and ultimately to change my own opinion if it needs changing.
- woofyman 9y ago
  So all the bad press Uber and AirBnB is getting is because they're male?
- seibelj 9y ago
  If I say you are racist, and 10 people tell me I'm wrong and that nothing you said is racist, by your logic that means you are racist, because why else would so many people say I'm wrong? If I'm so wrong, crazy, and stupid I mean.
- berberous 9y ago
  Her success also got more press than anyone else, males included. She was a darling of the media for a long time. Here's her gracing the cover of Fortune magazine, with some puff piece inside: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF09f1LVEAAG-oL.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF09f1LVEAAG-oL.jpg Also, "Silicon Valley unicorn is essentially a fraud" is inherently more interesting (in a click-bait / gossipy kind of way), then just a random success story. Rajat Gupta is one of the few Goldman Sachs partners I'm aware of, and it's because he went to jail.
- Helmet 9y ago
  "If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error?" You're putting words into peoples' mouths - no one has called you crazy or stupid. In fact, most people are not even saying you are wrong, hence that they are prefacing their responses with "Really?" or "Interesting..." because their experiences have been different.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  >If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error? Frankly, human nature: https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/
- lawnchair_larry 9y ago
  Honest answer? Because it's fucking annoying. You can't just decide to put reprehensible words in someones mouth and accuse them of bad behavior based on what you (wrongly) assume is in their head. I think you would protest if someone did that to you, no? Also, nobody called you crazy or stupid. Telling someone that they are wrong is not telling them that they are crazy or stupid.

I've seen this complaint several times, but personally have yet to see any comments attributing the disaster to Theranos's founder being a woman.

by cjf4 9y ago

I've seen this complaint several times, but personally have yet to see any comments attributing the disaster to Theranos's founder being a woman.

Mz 9y ago

And, yet, her catastrophe and the fact that it is founded by a woman gets vastly more press than any female successes. So, one must wonder why that is. And my feeling is that it is a form of sexism and the subtext is "See, this is why you shouldn't put a woman in charge." Also, at this point, there are six comments refuting what I said. Why is that? If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error? <-- Methinks thou doth protest too much.

yumyai 9y ago
"If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error?" Because it is wrong?
- Mz 9y ago
  Oh, and in addition to all the downvotes and the pile on, you needed to create a brand new account to join the pile on. But, sure, I am just a vitriolic, hysterical woman who is oversensitive. I couldn't possibly have a valid point or concern.
  - yumyai 9y ago
    Thank you, I couldn't phrase it better even if I try.
  - cblock811 9y ago
    Seems like you have a martyr complex. You're fighting against something that doesn't exist. Nobody here is out to get you.
    - Mz 9y ago
      Creating a new account to attack someone is a violation of the rules and a nasty move and suggests, yeah, whoever did it is actively hostile to me. Me recognizing that fact and not liking it is not me having a martyr complex. Edit: If you do not have "show dead" on, you may be missing the flagged to death other comment made by their account. If so, that may be skewing your perception.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - lawnchair_larry 9y ago
    Why is it that you cannot simply be wrong on one particular comment, rather than be wrong, vitriolic, hysterical, ovsersensitive, and incapable of any valid point? You're imposing a false dichotomy here. Being wrong doesn't include all of these offensive insults for anybody else. Why is it different for you?
darawk 9y ago
I think a large part of the initial hype and optimism about Theranos was that its founder was female. People were excited to have a female Steve Jobs type figure, and saw her as an inspiration. I think those same people are now disappointed. But personally I haven't seen anyone blaming her femininity for this happening. There's certainly plenty of instances of men doing this. To the extent that her gender has any fault in this, its in creating an additional layer of premature hype/attention around her company.
- Mz 9y ago
  This is how I ended my initial comment: But, geez, I hate the idea that there is lava-like splash back spattering all other women in the world who are trying to be taken seriously. Why is this such a terrible thing to express that so many people need to come down on me for feeling this way? If you were, say, a black guy concerned about some black guy getting enormous bad press and how that impacts blacks, would that merit this kind of dismissive pile on and massive downvoting? And if it did, would you think it only proved your point that racism and bad press is a real concern? And I apologize for aiming this at you. I am doing so because you seem to have the most evenhanded reply here so far. So it isn't intended to be ugly to you per se.
  - Helmet 9y ago
    If I was black and that black guy was getting bad press simply for being black, I would be concerned. If he was getting bad press because he did something stupid/unlawful/unethical/etc I would not be concerned because why in the world would I be? It's actually racist for you to insinuate that his blackness would be a factor at all. This all reminds me of the Erlich / Dinesh racist scene in Silicon Valley - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSzmVFF58Mo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSzmVFF58Mo
  - darawk 9y ago
    > Why is this such a terrible thing to express that so many people need to come down on me for feeling this way? If you were, say, a black guy concerned about some black guy getting enormous bad press and how that impacts blacks, would that merit this kind of dismissive pile on and massive downvoting? I'm not sure exactly how to respond to that. I'm slightly confused I guess as to why you feel people are coming down on you or dismissing you. To me, HN is a place where we all discuss our ideas about things and try to achieve a sort of collective consensus about the world. We certainly don't (and shouldn't!) all agree about everything, but we expose our ideas to one another in an attempt to improve our collective comprehension of the world around us. When I respond to a comment like yours, i'm not (usually) intending to attack it or tear it down - at least not in an aggressive way. I thought your point of view was interesting and worth responding to with my own. By this mechanism of back and forth, ideally we'd come to a shared understanding of what's happening in this situation. I find that process to be enjoyable and enlightening, which is why I responded to your comment. > And if it did, would you think it only proved your point that racism and bad press is a real concern? I think sexism is absolutely real and is absolutely a real concern. It's just that I have not perceived sexism in the response to this particular situation. However, part of my reason for replying to your comment was to try to better understand why it is that you do perceive it that way. There may be some article or set of comments you've seen that I have not that might change my view. Or maybe we simply saw the same things and interpreted them differently. Either way, i'm curious to understand that divergence, and ultimately to change my own opinion if it needs changing.
woofyman 9y ago
So all the bad press Uber and AirBnB is getting is because they're male?
seibelj 9y ago
If I say you are racist, and 10 people tell me I'm wrong and that nothing you said is racist, by your logic that means you are racist, because why else would so many people say I'm wrong? If I'm so wrong, crazy, and stupid I mean.
berberous 9y ago
Her success also got more press than anyone else, males included. She was a darling of the media for a long time. Here's her gracing the cover of Fortune magazine, with some puff piece inside: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF09f1LVEAAG-oL.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CF09f1LVEAAG-oL.jpg Also, "Silicon Valley unicorn is essentially a fraud" is inherently more interesting (in a click-bait / gossipy kind of way), then just a random success story. Rajat Gupta is one of the few Goldman Sachs partners I'm aware of, and it's because he went to jail.
Helmet 9y ago
"If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error?" You're putting words into peoples' mouths - no one has called you crazy or stupid. In fact, most people are not even saying you are wrong, hence that they are prefacing their responses with "Really?" or "Interesting..." because their experiences have been different.
hkmurakami 9y ago
>If I am so wrong, crazy and stupid, why do so very many people need to step up and inform me of my error? Frankly, human nature: https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/
lawnchair_larry 9y ago
Honest answer? Because it's fucking annoying. You can't just decide to put reprehensible words in someones mouth and accuse them of bad behavior based on what you (wrongly) assume is in their head. I think you would protest if someone did that to you, no? Also, nobody called you crazy or stupid. Telling someone that they are wrong is not telling them that they are crazy or stupid.