9 ms·

I know that this is out of place for HN, and I also would not normally make fun of a person's appearance, but since Vajiralongkorn is an asshole... well, these

• ithinkinstereo 10y ago
  Thailand as a whole is just bizzare to me. They have a ton of national pride and insulting the king is a huge offense there, yet on the other hand, they have no problem with their seedy sex tourism industry. Thailand is arguably the sex tourist capital of the world. Found it totally disgusting seeing all the old western men with young prostitutes during my visit to Bangkok a couple years ago. Can anyone explain why the Thai government turns a blind eye to this? It has really smeared Thailand's reputation for me and others I know who have visited.
  • Oxitendwe 10y ago
    Why do you assume they should care? They clearly have a different value system than yours. If you don't like it, don't go.
    • Chris2048 10y ago
      > They clearly have a different value system than yours What a cop-out. Concern for human welfare is universal.
      • Oxitendwe 10y ago
        What do you have against female autonomy? How is sex work inherently in conflict with "concern for human welfare"?
        • Chris2048 10y ago
          female autonomy? Is that how you're framing it? 1) Many sex workers have little choice 2) It also legitimises sex as a labour asset, increasing gender inequality
          • Mz 10y ago
            Making it illegal harms female autonomy. They become victims of their pimps. Pimping is much harder to prove than prostitution. When it is illegal, it is usually the women who are hurt by it. I will add that there is nothing inherently gendered about sex work. Your assumption that it must be a male customer and female sex worker is problematic and, itself, biased.
            • Chris2048 10y ago
              Strange this gets labelled 'autonomy' when every other law in the books restricts human autonomy just as much. > They become victims of their pimps This is a tangent to the illegality of prostitution itself. > here is nothing inherently gendered about sex work In absolute terms, but what about statistically? Tell me why it is 'problematic' not to derail the issue.
              • belorn 10y ago
                We could also call regulation and safety laws gendered because statistically men work more often in unsafe and dangerous environments. When people (practically all men) was exploited to work in coal mines by debt slavery, the solution was not to abolish the mining industry. The deaths, the humiliation and the low value of (poor, young) males life were resolved in the US by identifying the most exploitable aspects of those practices and surgely removing it by regulation. Give the sex industry the same treatment. Regulate away the worst part and tax it heavily so money can be rerouted into making it even safer in a self-sustaining way.
                • Chris2048 10y ago
                  > We could also call regulation and safety laws gendered because statistically men work more often in unsafe and dangerous environments. A valid point, and one worth addressing in its own right. Why should the sex industry be given the same treatment? The lives of young, poor men are disregarded, and you want to emulate this for some reason? Seems like we should be condemning unsafe vocations instead.. But this is a bit of a tangent.
      • imchillyb 10y ago
        > Concern for human welfare is universal. @Chris2048 Since when?! Concern for /other/ human beings is not only NOT universal, it's rarely prevalent in society. I think you should cite your source on that particular comment. I call bullsh*t.
        • Chris2048 10y ago
          Sure, you "cite your source" first.
        • Chris2048 10y ago
          Just noticed you aren't Oxitendwe. Please don't jump into this thread disregarding the context.
    • ithinkinstereo 10y ago
      It's curious to me because Thais tend to be very nationalistic and proud of their country/culture/heritage. That seems to conflict with the whole Thailand is the sex-tourism capital of the world look. _Especially_ given that 99% of sex tourists to Thailand are westerners. Call it what you want, but there is definitely some degree of exploitation at play, just given the exchange rate alone. If you've ever spent any time in these areas, it's a pretty disgusting sight. 10x different from the scene in other red-light districts (which as a whole, tend to be more "professional" and less sleazy/exploitative).
      • Oxitendwe 10y ago
        >there is definitely some degree of exploitation at play, just given the exchange rate alone. Arbitrage isn't exploitation. Why should someone pay more than the local rate just because they are a (relatively) more wealthy foreigner? That's racist.
        • 3131s 10y ago
          You're ignoring the context. I don't have any hard numbers, but many of these girls started working as prostitutes when they were children, out of force or total desperation. They get raped by the cops here, they get abused by their "boyfriends", they're frequently addicted to drugs and don't have any other options. Please come to Cambodia or Thailand and talk to some of these girls. It is usually not a pleasant existence. By all means legalize prostitution, but let's not pretend that, in SEA's current state, this is female empowerment or something.
          • papabrown 10y ago
            Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. In Thailand the girls you see in the go-go bars in Nana and Cowboy or down in Pattaya have not been forced into anything. You know nothing about what you're talking about. None of them started when they were children. Yes, every so often you hear about some 16 or 17 year old girl getting caught with a fake ID or something but the people most shocked in these incidents are the customers who had no clue since they were supposed to be 18+ to be working in the bar in the first place. The vast, vast, vast, majority of child prostitution that happens in SEA is Asian on Asian. Period. That's not even open for discussion if you've spent any amount of time living in the region. I read one article by some expat in Cambodia who questioned the Cambodian police chief about underage sex. The police chief told him flat out that westerners were only like 10% - 15% of the arrests they make. Most are locals or other Asians. So why do the NGOs make such a big deal about it? Because nobody will send them money if Cambodians are molesting children. Make it a white westerner from a rich country and donations flood in to stop the horror. Let's put things into perspective. It's estimated that 2,000,000 Thai women are involved in the prostitution industry in Thailand. Yet, those same estimates say that only 200,000 work in foreigner market. Do the math. I forget where I saw it but I remember reading several years ago about a survey they did in Thailand and something like 67% of Thai men said they'd had sex with a prostitute in the last six months. Some equally high number was attributed to the number of military conscripts who had lost their virginity to a prostitute. There's a lot of prostitution going on in Thailand that has absolutely nothing to do with foreigners. And where to they always make those busts of girls (usually Burmese) forced into sex slavery? Thai brothels. You need to quit watching the documentaries made by activists or people plagued with white guilt and actually spend some time learning what you're talking about.
  • rosser 10y ago
    It's not that the Thai people have no problem with the sex trade. Many do. The Thai I've spoken about it with — some of whom have themselves worked in, or have family in the sex trade — have consistently less sanguine attitudes than you seem to think. Rather, it's that the Thai are more forgiving of their notion of a man's need to fuck everything he possibly can, coupled with an awareness of how much money sex tourism brings into the economy — even leaving aside the technically illegal direct exchanges of money for sex. Then there's the cultural attitude that money is money, however you get it; that, for many of the young country women that make up the overwhelming majority of the Thai sex trade, making a living on their backs is preferable to making a much lower living in a factory or on a farm; that many of these girls are actually supporting their families back in the country; the failures of the Thai educational system to turn out citizens, particularly women, who can get better jobs than those alternatives, and so on. It's complicated. Ugly, and sometimes even evil, but complicated. Also, be careful about those judgements. When I was in BKK, I dated a local woman. She owned a hair and nail salon, had a couple of employees, and everything. I can't count the number of times I saw other farang looking at us and, by the expressions on their faces, making the assumption that she was on the job. It kinda sucks being on the receiving end of prejudice.
    • ithinkinstereo 10y ago
      I get the sex-positive arguments for legal prostitution, but I think it's worth comparing Thailand's red-light scene with other countries like Netherlands, Germany, Czech Republic, Australia, even the US in places where prostitution is legalized. Compared to these countries, Thailand's sex tourism scene seems far more seedy and exploitive. The the racial and economic aspects of it are especially alarming. > Also, be careful about those judgements. That's fair, but let's be reasonable here. Having traveled through S. East Asia extensively, the old/fat/ugly westerner with the young, lithe, Thai girl is a pretty common sight. Love is "blind" but let's not kid ourselves. The glares suck I'm sure, but they're more than justified (objectively speaking).
      • dragonwriter 10y ago
        > Compared to these countries, Thailand's sex tourism scene seems far more seedy and exploitive. Compared to first world countries, commercial relationships (especially between first-world tourists and locals) in third-world countries often seem more seedy and exploitive. I think that's more about the inherent nature of relations across giant wealth and cultural gulfs than anything else. So, while it's not a good thing, I don't think it's anything special that that's true about the sex trade.
  • wsc981 10y ago
    I personally don't see a problem with prostitution. I regard it as a job, just like any other. As such I don't look down on prostitutes and neither on their clients. As long as everything is legal, people are doing it safe, all is fine as far as I am concerned. One has to understand that some prostitutes in Thailand are able to earn 10x as much money compared to working on a farm or doing factory work. There is a huge amount of money moving from the big cities to the backlands of Thailand. The work can also be relatively easy. Apart from this, Thailand seems to have a pretty open view regards some aspects of love and sex. From what I understand it's not uncommon for Thai men to have a 2nd unofficial wife (mia noi) or (secretly) a gik (casual girlfriend) in another city. A "mia noi" would generally be financially supported in some way. A "gik" might get some money as well occasionally. I do know however that the local government of Pattaya wants to change the image of the city, make it less seedy and more family friendly. However, this could be at a huge financial cost. Many Thais benefit directly and indirectly from the sex trade.
    • nickpsecurity 10y ago
      "I personally don't see a problem with prostitution. I regard it as a job, just like any other. As such I don't look down on prostitutes and neither on their clients. As long as everything is legal, people are doing it safe, all is fine as far as I am concerned." I interviewed a bunch of prostitutes as part of my first, college paper on a controversial topic. Legalization was my position. The prostitutes pretty much all said what you just said. Everyone said their work was degrading, exploitative, and shouldn't be allowed. Some straight up got aggravated that others could control their bodies or decisions. Most countered by saying they felt more degraded or exploited in the other jobs where their minds or bodies were hurt all day long for about no money with no respect from anyone. Esp waitressing or retail where customers often treat workers cruelly since they know fighting back might cost a job. The prostitutes all said it was better to be in charge of their life with 30min-1hr of work that was either degrading or boring but with appreciative customers. So, yeah, that's straight from prostitutes. They agree with you. The bad thing was their voices weren't being heard by politicians who received bribes from whole markets of companies that would exploit & degrade them all day. Politicians only cared about that on certain topics. Worst part was police not caring about them led to more pimps, bullying, and rape by others for at least the streetwalkers or ghetto areas. So, I found that making the inevitable, harmless thing illegal contributed to those things since they were natural side effects of no accountability for what's done to "lesser humans." I then couldn't vote for it being illegal just because it's effectively be voting for people to be harmed that way.
  • homakov 10y ago
    As long as it is mutual consent, I don't see a problem about it. Also without that mai pen rai atmosphere TH would turn into another Laos/Vietnam and those countries are just sad.
    • Markoff 10y ago
      what is sad about Vietnam, no hypocrisy? at least you are always on alert
      • otheotheothe 10y ago
        The only thing that makes me sad when i am in Hanoi is the traffic.... besides that its a lovely city.
    • victornomad 10y ago
      Laos and Vietnam are really beautiful countries... nothing sad about them!
      • homakov 10y ago
        I lived for half a year in biggest cities of Vietnam, it's basically a dump for long term living compared to Thailand.
    • stephenr 10y ago
      Without the mai pen rai attitude you might have more people understanding why the police will be enforcing seat belt laws rather than demanding to be allowed to ride in the tray of a pickup truck.
  • Existenceblinks 10y ago
    Very easy to explain. My home is near the Ratchada-Huaykwang intersection where there are dozen of "อาบ อบ นวด" around there. Usually, cops get money from those massage parlor(sex selling) owners. LOTS of money. Now, there are also military, they have to pay both of them. You can see how hard it is to get rid of this industry.
  • deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
• anqh4 10y ago
  He could move to San Francisco.