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>I dare you to point out a plausible worse scenario. What about collapse of the ecosystem due to global warming?

vinceguidry 9y ago
The world isn't one ecosystem. Some ecosystems, like the Great Barrier Reef, will collapse, but this sort of thing won't put much of a dent in global commerce. Lots of people's livelihoods are threatened, but humanity isn't.
- pg314 9y ago
  You complain about moving goalposts in another comment in this thread, but you're doing that exact thing here. In your original comment you asked about societal collapse, here you're talking about threats to humanity. There are plenty of societies that have collapsed, yet humanity is still here...
  - vinceguidry 9y ago
    In the worst-case scenario, it's all the other societies that don't make up Western civilization that are threatened. Western Civilization, defined by the Anglosphere plus Europe, will survive and perhaps even thrive. We can adjust. Large scale civil engineering feats that could save the likes of Miami, London, and New York from sea level rise, the worst threat to Western civilization posed by climate change, are well within the ability of those cities to pursue. It will be very expensive, but not an existential threat.
    - cholantesh 9y ago
      Mass migrations are an assured consequence of climate change, and such events are culturally transformative on a grand scale.
      - drspacemonkey 9y ago
        I would argue we're already seeing that problem. The situation in Syria is highly exacerbated by mass migration forced by droughts.
      - vinceguidry 9y ago
        Migrations are generally a political problem. When you look at the economics of migration, migrants actually help the nation they migrate to a great deal. The political problems caused by mass migration are generally met with policy imposing social hierarchy in service of political continuity. Society changes, but the political order survives.
        cholantesh 9y ago
        Society is far more analogous to culture at large than the political order is.
- drspacemonkey 9y ago
  >The world isn't one ecosystem. That's semantics, and highly irrelevant. Everything you could define as an ecosystem on this planet is threatened by global warming. That includes the places where your food is grown. Same goes for everyone else's food. When food stability is threatened, societies collapse.

The world isn't one ecosystem. Some ecosystems, like the Great Barrier Reef, will collapse, but this sort of thing won't put much of a dent in global commerce. Lots of people's livelihoods are threatened, but humanity isn't.

pg314 9y ago
You complain about moving goalposts in another comment in this thread, but you're doing that exact thing here. In your original comment you asked about societal collapse, here you're talking about threats to humanity. There are plenty of societies that have collapsed, yet humanity is still here...
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  In the worst-case scenario, it's all the other societies that don't make up Western civilization that are threatened. Western Civilization, defined by the Anglosphere plus Europe, will survive and perhaps even thrive. We can adjust. Large scale civil engineering feats that could save the likes of Miami, London, and New York from sea level rise, the worst threat to Western civilization posed by climate change, are well within the ability of those cities to pursue. It will be very expensive, but not an existential threat.
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    Mass migrations are an assured consequence of climate change, and such events are culturally transformative on a grand scale.
    - drspacemonkey 9y ago
      I would argue we're already seeing that problem. The situation in Syria is highly exacerbated by mass migration forced by droughts.
    - vinceguidry 9y ago
      Migrations are generally a political problem. When you look at the economics of migration, migrants actually help the nation they migrate to a great deal. The political problems caused by mass migration are generally met with policy imposing social hierarchy in service of political continuity. Society changes, but the political order survives.
      - cholantesh 9y ago
        Society is far more analogous to culture at large than the political order is.
drspacemonkey 9y ago
>The world isn't one ecosystem. That's semantics, and highly irrelevant. Everything you could define as an ecosystem on this planet is threatened by global warming. That includes the places where your food is grown. Same goes for everyone else's food. When food stability is threatened, societies collapse.