7 ms·
It's kind of surprising that a lot more people aren't now?
by accountyaccount 10y ago
It's kind of surprising that a lot more people aren't now?
- mcculley 10y agoI think it is a lot like the situation with the Boston Marathon 50 years ago. We were born into a world where poor treatment of animals was already happening. For those born afterward, it will be unthinkable.
- brianwawok 10y agoI try to eat animal flesh from farmers that were nice to them.
- mcculley 10y agoI enjoy a lot of animal flesh. I have no idea how I can find out which bits came from nice farmers. I imagine that most of it comes from terrible places. I am eager to see a substitute.
- problems 10y agoI for one just don't give a shit and will completely admit I just eat whatever's cheap and tasty. I doubt many people will admit this, but I bet there are many in the same boat. If we can get lab-grown meat below the cost and/or of improved taste to dead animal meat, it's likely to do very well and open people up more to the moral argument which will cement it. Right now it fails miserably on both fronts. And I'm sure there will be pushback from the "organic"/"all natural" what-have-you crowd which exists now about how lab grown meat has evil chemicals or some equally silly thing.
- accountyaccount 10y agoCould you imagine yourself at any sort of turning point? Or are you at the point where you'd just as gladly kill animals for food yourself? Not trying to criticize, it's how humans have existed for thousands of years — I'm just genuinely curious what a realistic "oh wait, I'm going to not do this" point is for people who eat meat.
- mcculley 10y ago> Or are you at the point where you'd just as gladly kill animals for food yourself? Just to be clear in my case as I originally responded: There is a distinction between killing animals to feed oneself and outsourcing the killing to a farm which causes those animals to spend their entire life suffering (e.g., chickens confined to a small cage). That is not how humans existed for thousands of years.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- brianwawok 10y agoYou can outsource the killing of free range chickens or cows. They live much happier lives before I eat them.
- mcculley 10y agoWhile that is possible, it is difficult to vet the supply chain.
- accountyaccount 10y agofair point
- mitchty 10y ago> Or are you at the point where you'd just as gladly kill animals for food yourself? If you're not willing to look the animal in the eyes and kill it, you shouldn't be eating it. I'll go one further and say if you haven't actually butchered a cow or chicken, you shouldn't be eating that meat. (I'll say the same about pork, bison, ostrich, snake, rabbit, sheep, etc... too but those are less common) I grew up on a farm/ranch, I've looked cows in the eyes that I fed daily to fatten them up just for this purpose. I genuinely don't care about it, its a part of life. So for myself that point probably doesn't exist. You can look at it in two ways philosophically, one, which seems predominant on this forum is that any human inflicted "suffering" is wrong and should be avoided. One other view, which I think most cattle producers would think philosophically, is that you brought into the world more animals than if you didn't exist. Note, I'm just ignoring feed lots here as that isn't what I grew up around, nor does anyone I know support them. Presupposing however that only the former viewpoint regarding suffering is correct is a bit of criticism however. Additionally, if you've ever watched how most predators take down prey, humans are vastly more humane about it. I'd rather we separate out the feedlot question from the actual killing question. The former is an economic issue, the latter I think of in many ways as the Lakota did.
- anigbrowl 10y agoBuy it from somewhere that you can get that information, like a farmer's market. Alternatively, call your favorite suppliers and demand that they furnish you with such information. It's your choice to find out, or not.
- mcculley 10y agoThat only works for those who cook their own food.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago> Alternatively, call your favorite suppliers and demand that they furnish you with such information. It's your choice to find out, or not. That works just as well for restaurants.
- mcculley 10y agoI would be very hungry if I were to expect the staff at my local restaurants to be able to answer detailed questions about their supply chain.
- nickjarboe 10y agoFarm to table restaurants are very trendy at the moment.
- mcculley 10y agoYes, there is one in my town. I had a meal there. It was a lot of fun. We ate celery. Unfortunately, the meat had to come from another farm as the proprietors had their hands full trying to grow celery.
- nickjarboe 10y agoI think the idea behind farm to table is not that the owners of the restaurant supply everything they serve themselves but know their suppliers personally, maybe have been to the suppliers farm, and can answer detailed questions about their restaurants supply chain.
- nojvek 10y agoI've been a vegetarian my entire life and only eaten meat once accidentally in a supposedly veggie burger. But I can imagine life in coastal areas where fish is the only option. For those who kill the animals they eat, do you ever feel attached to it? I can't imagine killing my dog for food. It's like cannibalizing my child.
- accountyaccount 10y agoDid your parents raise you as a vegetarian? Just curious because I'm a vegetarian myself and I'm not sure how I'd handle that.
- nojvek 10y agoI was raised vegetarian but I had freedom to choose my diet. I just preferred being vegetarian for moral and environmental impact.
- HiroshiSan 10y agoJust the flesh? No muscle?
- maxerickson 10y agoIn the common English vernacular, flesh is inclusive of muscle.
- brianwawok 10y agoCorrect I nom it all.
- hobarrera 10y agoThis is pretty much like saying "I'm all for slavery if they treat the slaves really well". It's actually quite literally that.
- fixxer 10y agoIf your teeth are like mine, then they are sharp at the front, designed for the cutting and tearing of flesh. Industrial farming is about as humane as any other method for killing I've seen/practiced. People argue that hunting keeps one more connected with the concept of meat as quarry, but the end result is the same. I shot a scimitar oryx through the heart a few years ago (before the ban) and it still ran 100 yards before it dropped. I'm pretty sure stun guns and captive bolt pistols remove the concept of pain faster.
- mcculley 10y agoWhen I think about the cruelty of industrial farming of animals, I'm concerned more with the way some animals are kept suffering confined to claustrophobic cages for their entire lives than I am about how they are killed. I know that some killing is done humanely. Your oryx was able to run.
- fixxer 10y agoI guess if I was one to anthropomorphize my food, I'd agree.
- mcculley 10y agoDo you seriously believe only humans are capable of suffering? Are you not concerned about the suffering of animals other than humans?
- fixxer 10y agoNope. But where do you draw the line? Mosquitos feel pain. Who cares? Why don't we care? These moral/ethical lines are completely arbitrary.
- mcculley 10y agoThey are unclear, but not arbitrary. I enjoy shrimp. I don't think a shrimp is capable of experiencing suffering. I feel no guilt about the treatment of shrimp raised for me to enjoy. It is completely obvious to me that higher mammals such as dogs and pigs experience suffering. I enjoy pork. I don't feel bad about a pig being humanely killed so that I may enjoy pork. I do feel bad about a pig being made to suffer for his entire life as some do on factory farms. Just because it is difficult and subjective to know what suffers doesn't mean we shouldn't think about it.