13 ms·

Did you try simply stopping with the soy protein and gluten consumption? In any case, I hardly see how going back to an animal-including diet changes anything

Did you try simply stopping with the soy protein and gluten consumption? In any case, I hardly see how going back to an animal-including diet changes anything on that front. Soy is not vegan-only, and neither is gluten. You can easily live on a vegan diet without those things, and you can easily live on a non-vegan diet including those things. Seems more like a weak excuse if you ask me.

Danihan 9y ago
To be clear, you think it's "easy" to live on a diet without any animal products, and also without soy or gluten, and that I'm "weak" for not doing so, despite other health issues I had on the diet? This is another aspect of veganism that really turns me off, the pervasive self-righteousness within the community at large. Please tell me what restaurants I could visit with those dietary restrictions? And what quick lunches / fast food I can buy on that diet, on say a 30 minute lunch break, for instance...?
- John23832 9y ago
  > To be clear, you think it's "easy" to live on a diet without any animal products, and also without soy or gluten, and that I'm "weak" for not doing so, despite other health issues I had on the diet? This is another aspect of veganism that completely turns me off, the pervasive self-righteousness within the community at large. Please tell me what restaurants I could visit with those dietary restrictions? And what quick lunches / fast food I can buy on that diet, on say a 30 minute lunch break, for instance...? People don't really realize what they eat, especially when it comes to gluten and soy. I developed a wheat allergy after college (which my doctor said was caused by stress and working in a pizzaria full of wheat) which caused me to have to switch to a gluten free diet. That means your prepared meal options are massively reduced, more of your time is spend cooking (which imo is a good thing, I'm conscious about what I eat now), and if you do eat out, take on a "gluten-free tax". People who go on these holier-than-though fad diets don't understand what people who actually have dietary needs go through. There is no wiggle room for us. If we don't follow our diets there are real and serious medical consequences. We don't just "feel down on ourselves" for not following the diet and the strictness with which we must follow our diets cause real inconveniences.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Actually, v*gns -- most of whom will become violently ill if someone sneaks a little ground beef into their food -- have a good understanding of "what people who actually have dietary needs go through".
    - John23832 9y ago
      Well then that means that it's not a "holier-than-thou fad diet" for that person, right?
  - sten 9y ago
    The parent seems to be suggesting that a vegan diet didn't work for them for health reasons. But countered objections to this by saying that it's difficult. (Which it is. Stupidly difficult to eat meat, gluten and soy free in my experience) But convenience is a different argument from health. Which is it? If the issue is convenience, I concede. If it's health there may be room to explore other options. Though I admit there is nothing inherently healthy about eating vegan (oreos are vegan and I've gained weight while still being vegan while learning how to bake) I'd argue that choosing a diet on the availability of fast food choices is an indicator of an unhealthy decision.
    - John23832 9y ago
      > The parent seems to be suggesting that a vegan diet didn't work for them for health reasons. But countered objections to this by saying that it's difficult. (Which it is. Stupidly difficult to eat meat, gluten and soy free in my experience) But convenience is a different argument from health. Which is it? If the issue is convenience, I concede. If it's health there may be room to explore other options. Why can't it be both? A diet can be both medically necessary and inconveniencing. See my own example or a diabetic diet.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  Most Indian vegetarian food has no soy and can be paired with rice instead of bread. It doesn't sound like that's a sort of food that's common in your area.
- fredsir 9y ago
  > To be clear, you think it's "easy" to live on a diet without any animal products, and also without soy or gluten, and that I'm "weak" for not doing so, despite other health issues I had on the diet? Yes I do. I'm a vegan and have been for 3 years. In Denmark at least, it's easy to avoid gluten when you buy bread. If it isn't in your country, bake your own. Soy? Also easy. There are thousands of other plants. > Please tell me what restaurants I could visit with those dietary restrictions? Any vegan(-friendly) restaurant. > And what quick lunches / fast food I can buy on that diet, on say a 30 minute lunch break, for instance...? I eat pizzas, burgers, sandwiches, salats, pasta salats, cold pasta dishes, rice and curry (heated up) and so on for lunch. Anything really. If you can't buy it as take-away, cook your own.
  - John23832 9y ago
    That just means that it's easy for you. In the US, for example, wheat flour is found in pretty much everything. It's used as a breading, thickener, binding agent etc. It's even a filler in meat.
    - fredsir 9y ago
      Glad I don't live in the US then :) I've seen an increase in gluten-free products in the last years though, and also heard that it's been happening in the US and UK among other places too. Even in candy. Is that not true?
      - John23832 9y ago
        It is. Luckily the gluten free diet has become more of a fad here for people with money, so there are more options. However, there are no where near as many options to achieve gluten/gluten-free parity. I guess that's one of the benefits of not living in "processed or manufactured everything" America. We have the benefit of not having to cook as much, you have the benefit of having more control over what you put into your food.
        fredsir 9y ago
Pxtl 9y ago
> You can easily live on a vegan diet without those things That's not true. The vast majority of convenient off-the-shelf meat substitutes use soy or seitan to replace meat protein. Staying vegan while giving up soy and gluten means committing to a massive amount of meal-prep, and vegan food is already more labour-intensive in meal prep than the corresponding omnivore meals. It would mean basically giving up on all restaurant eating everywhere. I'm not saying it can't be done, but you should not downplay that with "easily".
- fredsir 9y ago
  > That's not true. The vast majority of convenient off-the-shelf meat substitutes use soy or seitan to replace meat protein. Indeed. I've seen a trend in new products using other stuff though. It's getting easier. But lets not forgot you can just buy proper whole food instead like fruit, beans, grains, vegetables, legumes and so on. > Staying vegan while giving up soy and gluten means committing to a massive amount of meal-prep, and vegan food is already more labour-intensive in meal prep than the corresponding omnivore meals. I think it depends on what culture you are from. In Denmark, it's normal to prepare food yourself. Sure, some buy ready-made food in stores, but I've never grown up seeing my parents do it, and I rarely do it myself. > It would mean basically giving up on all restaurant eating everywhere. All vegan-friendly restaurants I've been at have also had non-gluten bread and dishes not containing soy at all. > I'm not saying it can't be done, but you should not downplay that with "easily". I think that's subjective. If you're used to buy food that's already made, well, then, it probably isn't. If you are used to cooking yourself then it is.

Danihan 9y ago

To be clear, you think it's "easy" to live on a diet without any animal products, and also without soy or gluten, and that I'm "weak" for not doing so, despite other health issues I had on the diet? This is another aspect of veganism that really turns me off, the pervasive self-righteousness within the community at large. Please tell me what restaurants I could visit with those dietary restrictions? And what quick lunches / fast food I can buy on that diet, on say a 30 minute lunch break, for instance...?

John23832 9y ago
> To be clear, you think it's "easy" to live on a diet without any animal products, and also without soy or gluten, and that I'm "weak" for not doing so, despite other health issues I had on the diet? This is another aspect of veganism that completely turns me off, the pervasive self-righteousness within the community at large. Please tell me what restaurants I could visit with those dietary restrictions? And what quick lunches / fast food I can buy on that diet, on say a 30 minute lunch break, for instance...? People don't really realize what they eat, especially when it comes to gluten and soy. I developed a wheat allergy after college (which my doctor said was caused by stress and working in a pizzaria full of wheat) which caused me to have to switch to a gluten free diet. That means your prepared meal options are massively reduced, more of your time is spend cooking (which imo is a good thing, I'm conscious about what I eat now), and if you do eat out, take on a "gluten-free tax". People who go on these holier-than-though fad diets don't understand what people who actually have dietary needs go through. There is no wiggle room for us. If we don't follow our diets there are real and serious medical consequences. We don't just "feel down on ourselves" for not following the diet and the strictness with which we must follow our diets cause real inconveniences.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  Actually, v*gns -- most of whom will become violently ill if someone sneaks a little ground beef into their food -- have a good understanding of "what people who actually have dietary needs go through".
  - John23832 9y ago
    Well then that means that it's not a "holier-than-thou fad diet" for that person, right?
- sten 9y ago
  The parent seems to be suggesting that a vegan diet didn't work for them for health reasons. But countered objections to this by saying that it's difficult. (Which it is. Stupidly difficult to eat meat, gluten and soy free in my experience) But convenience is a different argument from health. Which is it? If the issue is convenience, I concede. If it's health there may be room to explore other options. Though I admit there is nothing inherently healthy about eating vegan (oreos are vegan and I've gained weight while still being vegan while learning how to bake) I'd argue that choosing a diet on the availability of fast food choices is an indicator of an unhealthy decision.
  - John23832 9y ago
    > The parent seems to be suggesting that a vegan diet didn't work for them for health reasons. But countered objections to this by saying that it's difficult. (Which it is. Stupidly difficult to eat meat, gluten and soy free in my experience) But convenience is a different argument from health. Which is it? If the issue is convenience, I concede. If it's health there may be room to explore other options. Why can't it be both? A diet can be both medically necessary and inconveniencing. See my own example or a diabetic diet.
greglindahl 9y ago
Most Indian vegetarian food has no soy and can be paired with rice instead of bread. It doesn't sound like that's a sort of food that's common in your area.
fredsir 9y ago
> To be clear, you think it's "easy" to live on a diet without any animal products, and also without soy or gluten, and that I'm "weak" for not doing so, despite other health issues I had on the diet? Yes I do. I'm a vegan and have been for 3 years. In Denmark at least, it's easy to avoid gluten when you buy bread. If it isn't in your country, bake your own. Soy? Also easy. There are thousands of other plants. > Please tell me what restaurants I could visit with those dietary restrictions? Any vegan(-friendly) restaurant. > And what quick lunches / fast food I can buy on that diet, on say a 30 minute lunch break, for instance...? I eat pizzas, burgers, sandwiches, salats, pasta salats, cold pasta dishes, rice and curry (heated up) and so on for lunch. Anything really. If you can't buy it as take-away, cook your own.
- John23832 9y ago
  That just means that it's easy for you. In the US, for example, wheat flour is found in pretty much everything. It's used as a breading, thickener, binding agent etc. It's even a filler in meat.
  - fredsir 9y ago
    Glad I don't live in the US then :) I've seen an increase in gluten-free products in the last years though, and also heard that it's been happening in the US and UK among other places too. Even in candy. Is that not true?
    - John23832 9y ago
      It is. Luckily the gluten free diet has become more of a fad here for people with money, so there are more options. However, there are no where near as many options to achieve gluten/gluten-free parity. I guess that's one of the benefits of not living in "processed or manufactured everything" America. We have the benefit of not having to cook as much, you have the benefit of having more control over what you put into your food.
      - fredsir 9y ago

Pxtl 9y ago

> You can easily live on a vegan diet without those things That's not true. The vast majority of convenient off-the-shelf meat substitutes use soy or seitan to replace meat protein. Staying vegan while giving up soy and gluten means committing to a massive amount of meal-prep, and vegan food is already more labour-intensive in meal prep than the corresponding omnivore meals. It would mean basically giving up on all restaurant eating everywhere. I'm not saying it can't be done, but you should not downplay that with "easily".

fredsir 9y ago
> That's not true. The vast majority of convenient off-the-shelf meat substitutes use soy or seitan to replace meat protein. Indeed. I've seen a trend in new products using other stuff though. It's getting easier. But lets not forgot you can just buy proper whole food instead like fruit, beans, grains, vegetables, legumes and so on. > Staying vegan while giving up soy and gluten means committing to a massive amount of meal-prep, and vegan food is already more labour-intensive in meal prep than the corresponding omnivore meals. I think it depends on what culture you are from. In Denmark, it's normal to prepare food yourself. Sure, some buy ready-made food in stores, but I've never grown up seeing my parents do it, and I rarely do it myself. > It would mean basically giving up on all restaurant eating everywhere. All vegan-friendly restaurants I've been at have also had non-gluten bread and dishes not containing soy at all. > I'm not saying it can't be done, but you should not downplay that with "easily". I think that's subjective. If you're used to buy food that's already made, well, then, it probably isn't. If you are used to cooking yourself then it is.