6 ms·

One thing worth noting is that regardless of one's personal reasons to be vegan/ vegetarian , being 90% vegan WILL almost always be 90% effective for said reaso

by NhanH 10y ago

One thing worth noting is that regardless of one's personal reasons to be vegan/ vegetarian , being 90% vegan WILL almost always be 90% effective for said reason. This is not to dispute anything from the article. Just a reminder that if you sympathize or relate with any cause to reduce animal product usage, you don't have to be "vegan" or "vegetarian", just try to reduce your consumption to the point where it starts to inconvenient you.

colordrops 10y ago
More generally, black and white thinking is often less effective than thinking in scales.
- dionidium 10y ago
  Is this really true? I was a vegetarian for 10 years. It was easy. Meat was verboten. Full stop. I never had to negotiate it with myself. But, now, at any individual meal I can convince myself that it's no big deal to eat a little meat. Crucially, I can convince myself of that for several days in a row. If the end goal is less meat, then, for me, the results were clear: black and white thinking was far more effective.
  - ch4s3 10y ago
    Have you tried rate limiting? Or setting other simple rules? For example say: 5 servings of meat per week max, and only 1 of red meat?
  - xexers 10y ago
    Agreed. I am normally a very nuanced person who tries hard to see all sides of an issue... but with my vegetarian diet, I find total abstinence to be the best thing. Eating a little bit of meat requires will power to not eat too much... and I have a limited reserve of will power which I want to save for other things in my life. I've been vegetarian for 9 years.
  - colordrops 10y ago
    Far more effective for you as an individual, but has it been far more effective in the reduction of the absolute amount of meat that has been eaten world-wide?
- jdietrich 10y ago
  Black-and-white behavioural change is almost always easier than quantitative change, because the cognitive burden of a prohibition is far less. Counting calories is rational but time-consuming, complex, error prone and open to self-deception; an absolute prohibition on starchy carbs is arbitrary but much easier to stick to. Not drinking at all on weekdays or drinking only with meals is cognitively much easier than restricting yourself to 14 standard drinks per week. Most religious laws are absolute prohibitions or absolute mandates - no foods are mostly kosher or halal, no foods become haram or treif merely because of quantity. None of the ten commandments are quantitative or subjective. Being a frummer is burdensome and inconvenient, but it's also remarkably straightforward. Strict and absolutist behavioural rules are easy to understand and apply.
snarkyturtle 10y ago
Right, the article mentions that peak meat was reached around 2004 and is now declining, going partially vegetarian would help with that decline.
DINKDINK 10y ago
I call the lifestyle you describe, "Meat Reducers"
glibgil 10y ago
Meat, dairy and eggs are over. It's only a matter of time. Yes, your shoes and your belt might still be leather, but the rest of your outfit is probably plant based or synthetic. Your diet will soon be the same because it will be cheaper. CRISPR is going to eat your lunch
rqebmm 10y ago
I've wrestled with it, and settled into prioritizing humanely-raised meat. I have far more qualms about the inhumane treatment of most farm animals than I do about the concept of raising and slaughtering animals for food. The heuristic I apply is I only eat antibiotic free meat. It has nothing to do with animals taking antibiotics per se, but rather that large farms abuse them as it's cheaper to pump a pig full of antibiotics than it is to provide remotely sanitary living conditions, nevermind the environmental issues around creating antibiotic resistant superbugs.
schnevets 10y ago
I wanted to cut meat for environmental purposes, so I've started only eating it on holidays - turkey on Thanksgiving, fish on Christmas Eve, a burger/barbecue on 4th of July, buffalo wings on my birthday. I don't describe myself with the "V" word, and usually just say I "avoid eating meat". People are usually critical when I opt for vegetarian options, and then completely lighten up when I describe that I do eat meat. It's strange how defensive people get about eating meat, and how quickly they lighten up just because I eat meat 5 times a year.
- falcolas 10y ago
  > It's strange how defensive people get about eating meat Not so strange, when you have been the repeated recipient of either the "meat is murder" or "I'm obviously better than you because I don't eat meat" comments from militant vegetarians. Basically, there's prejudice and justification on both sides of the divide, and it's too easy to respond to the constant hate with your own hate.
  - overthought77 10y ago
    And on the flip side "You avoid meat? That's unAmerican. You some pansy vegeunamerican?" As if their blood is anymore red white and blue. See how easy it was to flip your reasoning. Which probably means it's BS. Ego masturbation is not restricted to one side of the political divide. Suspect, as usual, the answer lies more in advertising a cultural wide meat fetish. Ham on every table, rare steak on every working mans plate, than people being offended at all those pretentious vegans they deal with all day every day
  - btschaegg 10y ago
    I'm sure those militant people exist, but I've yet to encounter one. I can speak from the other side though. After someone realizes that I don't eat meat, I usually (as in way too often) get follow up questions about the reasons etc. I'm not sure if this is because of attempted "small talk" or other reasons, but after a while, I just got tired of it. I generally try to avoid long follow-up discussions on the topic, because I simply don't think it's worthy of attention (at least in this context).
tmaly 10y ago
I am partial vegan because it is just better for your health. I started with a book called Vegan before 6 After 6pm you eat what ever you want
cypherg 10y ago
aka, being a Flexitarian
podiki 10y ago
When I started out with veganism (went "100%" immediately) I thought I would eat animal products when eating out with friends if it was easier, or on occasions when it was something special. While I still go more vegetarian than vegan while traveling for several reasons (ease, health because of available food, etc.), in the end I found it surprisingly hard to make the exceptions. It was easier for some reason to just stick with it.

by NhanH 10y ago

colordrops 10y ago

More generally, black and white thinking is often less effective than thinking in scales.

dionidium 10y ago
Is this really true? I was a vegetarian for 10 years. It was easy. Meat was verboten. Full stop. I never had to negotiate it with myself. But, now, at any individual meal I can convince myself that it's no big deal to eat a little meat. Crucially, I can convince myself of that for several days in a row. If the end goal is less meat, then, for me, the results were clear: black and white thinking was far more effective.
- ch4s3 10y ago
  Have you tried rate limiting? Or setting other simple rules? For example say: 5 servings of meat per week max, and only 1 of red meat?
- xexers 10y ago
  Agreed. I am normally a very nuanced person who tries hard to see all sides of an issue... but with my vegetarian diet, I find total abstinence to be the best thing. Eating a little bit of meat requires will power to not eat too much... and I have a limited reserve of will power which I want to save for other things in my life. I've been vegetarian for 9 years.
- colordrops 10y ago
  Far more effective for you as an individual, but has it been far more effective in the reduction of the absolute amount of meat that has been eaten world-wide?
jdietrich 10y ago
Black-and-white behavioural change is almost always easier than quantitative change, because the cognitive burden of a prohibition is far less. Counting calories is rational but time-consuming, complex, error prone and open to self-deception; an absolute prohibition on starchy carbs is arbitrary but much easier to stick to. Not drinking at all on weekdays or drinking only with meals is cognitively much easier than restricting yourself to 14 standard drinks per week. Most religious laws are absolute prohibitions or absolute mandates - no foods are mostly kosher or halal, no foods become haram or treif merely because of quantity. None of the ten commandments are quantitative or subjective. Being a frummer is burdensome and inconvenient, but it's also remarkably straightforward. Strict and absolutist behavioural rules are easy to understand and apply.

snarkyturtle 10y ago

Right, the article mentions that peak meat was reached around 2004 and is now declining, going partially vegetarian would help with that decline.

DINKDINK 10y ago

I call the lifestyle you describe, "Meat Reducers"

glibgil 10y ago

Meat, dairy and eggs are over. It's only a matter of time. Yes, your shoes and your belt might still be leather, but the rest of your outfit is probably plant based or synthetic. Your diet will soon be the same because it will be cheaper. CRISPR is going to eat your lunch

rqebmm 10y ago

I've wrestled with it, and settled into prioritizing humanely-raised meat. I have far more qualms about the inhumane treatment of most farm animals than I do about the concept of raising and slaughtering animals for food. The heuristic I apply is I only eat antibiotic free meat. It has nothing to do with animals taking antibiotics per se, but rather that large farms abuse them as it's cheaper to pump a pig full of antibiotics than it is to provide remotely sanitary living conditions, nevermind the environmental issues around creating antibiotic resistant superbugs.

schnevets 10y ago

I wanted to cut meat for environmental purposes, so I've started only eating it on holidays - turkey on Thanksgiving, fish on Christmas Eve, a burger/barbecue on 4th of July, buffalo wings on my birthday. I don't describe myself with the "V" word, and usually just say I "avoid eating meat". People are usually critical when I opt for vegetarian options, and then completely lighten up when I describe that I do eat meat. It's strange how defensive people get about eating meat, and how quickly they lighten up just because I eat meat 5 times a year.

falcolas 10y ago
> It's strange how defensive people get about eating meat Not so strange, when you have been the repeated recipient of either the "meat is murder" or "I'm obviously better than you because I don't eat meat" comments from militant vegetarians. Basically, there's prejudice and justification on both sides of the divide, and it's too easy to respond to the constant hate with your own hate.
- overthought77 10y ago
  And on the flip side "You avoid meat? That's unAmerican. You some pansy vegeunamerican?" As if their blood is anymore red white and blue. See how easy it was to flip your reasoning. Which probably means it's BS. Ego masturbation is not restricted to one side of the political divide. Suspect, as usual, the answer lies more in advertising a cultural wide meat fetish. Ham on every table, rare steak on every working mans plate, than people being offended at all those pretentious vegans they deal with all day every day
- btschaegg 10y ago
  I'm sure those militant people exist, but I've yet to encounter one. I can speak from the other side though. After someone realizes that I don't eat meat, I usually (as in way too often) get follow up questions about the reasons etc. I'm not sure if this is because of attempted "small talk" or other reasons, but after a while, I just got tired of it. I generally try to avoid long follow-up discussions on the topic, because I simply don't think it's worthy of attention (at least in this context).

tmaly 10y ago

I am partial vegan because it is just better for your health. I started with a book called Vegan before 6 After 6pm you eat what ever you want

cypherg 10y ago

aka, being a Flexitarian

podiki 10y ago

When I started out with veganism (went "100%" immediately) I thought I would eat animal products when eating out with friends if it was easier, or on occasions when it was something special. While I still go more vegetarian than vegan while traveling for several reasons (ease, health because of available food, etc.), in the end I found it surprisingly hard to make the exceptions. It was easier for some reason to just stick with it.